Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
  1. #1
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Some weeks ago, I noticed that the Desktop toolbar was no longer active on my Start Bar. So, I right-clicked the Start Bar, clicked Toolbars, and selected "Desktop"... Worked fine, until I rebooted; it was gone. I had to "select" it again. The same thing happens with the QuickLaunch Bar; after a reboot, it's no longer "there", although I can select it again.
    I've not noticed any other anomalies in Windows operation, and, so far as I know ( <img src=/S/angel.gif border=0 alt=angel width=15 height=21>) , have not made any relevant registry changes or loaded any TSR software.
    I'd be grateful for any suggestions.
    Thanks.
    Dave

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    84,353
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Go to Troubleshooting Windows XP, Tweaks and Fixes for Windows XP, read the instructions at the top, then scroll down to #54. Download the item labeled "Save Settings on Exit" on the right-hand side and follow the instruction for .reg files.
    HTH

  3. #3
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Hans,
    Thanks for the fast response. Unfortunately... I ran the reg fix; rebooted; added Quick Launch again; rebooted again... and it's not retained, again... :-(
    Any other ideas?
    Thanks.
    Dave

  4. #4
    Uranium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    6,684
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Do you have the Lock Taskbar option checked ???
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  5. #5
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    I'd already tried it both ways... no change. I'd also tried the start bar with Auto-hide on (as I normally had it) and off... no change.
    Gremlins?

  6. #6
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Long Beach, California, USA
    Posts
    1,912
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    I can't really tell where this data is stored. The Kelly's Tweaks page is offline at this moment, so I cannot tell what it said.

    I come up with two possibilities for where the data is kept: ntuser.dat or the registry. But the only registry changes that seem to be occurring as one turns on/off the QuickLaunch Tool bar or the Desktop Toolbar are here:

    HKCUSoftwareMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionExplorer DiscardablePostSetupComponent Categories{00021492-0000-0000-C000-000000000046}EnumImplementing:

    Then the value data is all in binary code, and translating that into ASCII leads to no useful information. So it is difficult to tell exactly what that is doing. (I prefer registry values that make sense -- like "QuickLaunch: On" -- but it does not look like we are going to be that fortunate here.)

    Working with ntuser.dat is not an easy challenge, so I am not sure there is a good way to modify that.

    Is your computer shutting down correctly? Normally shutting down XP with the changes made is all that is required to save these settings. Also, have you tried going into Safe Mode, making the desired changes, and shutting this down? (Less things to interfere).

  7. #7
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    84,353
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    I have no problem reaching Kelly's Tweaks page. I have attached the file I referred to with the extension changed from .reg to .txt, for your information.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Hi, folks; and thanks for your interest in this item. Here's what I've else I've now tried.
    First... Hans: the txt file you sent is exactly the reg fix that you'd recommended and that I'd tried, without any change.
    Second, I tried the following with Safe Mode:

    - Booted in Safe Mode, logged on as Adminstrator; turned Lock Taskbar off; put QuickLaunch onto Start Bar; rebooted into Safe Mode; logged on as Adminstrator. Quick Launch was no longer there; Task Bar was no longer "on".

    - Booted into Safe Mode, logged on as "me"; turned Lock TaskBar off; put QuickLaunch onto Start Bar; rebooted into Safe Mode; logged on as "me". Quick Launch was no longer there; Task Bar was no longer "on".

    - Booted in Safe Mode, logged on as Adminstrator; turned Lock Taskbar off; put QuickLaunch onto Start Bar; rebooted normally; Quick Launch was no longer there; Task Bar was no longer "on"; Google Desktop toolbar was, however, back on the Start Bar.

    - Booted in Safe Mode, logged on as "me"; turned Lock Taskbar off; put QuickLaunch onto Start Bar; rebooted normally; Quick Launch was no longer there; Task Bar was no longer "on"; Google Desktop toolbar was, however, back on the Start Bar. As a matter of fact, that's the only one that *does* seem to stay there... even though it was not there the several occasions that I booted into Safe Mode...

    As Lewis Carroll had Alice in Wonderland say, "curiouser and curiouser"...

    Ideas? <img src=/S/confused.gif border=0 alt=confused width=15 height=20>

    Thanks.
    Dave

  9. #9
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Long Beach, California, USA
    Posts
    1,912
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Everything from Microsoft.com seems to point to the "NoSaveSettings" registry entry here:
    HKEY_CURRENT_USERSoftwareMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVe rsionPoliciesExplorer

    Does that setting STAY at "0", or is something changing it to a "1"?

    IF, the problem is with "Save Settings on Exit", THEN other things besides just the Taskbar should not be saved on exit -- and most easiest to verify is the Desktop icons. If you move your Desktop icons around and then reboot, do the icons stay in their new positions, or revert back to the old spots?

    Also, what about different users? Can you sign on as a new user, and does the problem occur on both accounts?

    And there is no reason why a Group Policy would be implemented on your computer?

    Then we might need some help with definitions -- or, at the very least, I do! I am assuming what you are calling the "Start bar" is really the "Taskbar" -- that specialized large 'toolbar' that sits (usually) at the bottom of your screen and is made up of: the Start "button", the Notification Area (eh, 'The Tray' in slanguage), the QuickLauch Toolbar, The Desktop Toolbar, other Toolbars, such as Google, and the little bars that display all of the "running" programs (what are those called officially?). That entire thing is officially called the "Taskbar" by MS.

    Then, this quote: "Task Bar was no longer 'on'", can be taken to mean that "Lock the Taskbar" was unchecked, c'est vrai?

    Lastly, is the Google Toolbar somehow interfering?? Can you uninstall that and see what happens? That is usually quite easy to reinstall -- since most program now seem intent on making you install it!

  10. #10
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    Hi, again.
    Let me try to deal with each of your points.

    1) Everything from Microsoft.com seems to point to the "NoSaveSettings" registry entry here:
    HKEY_CURRENT_USERSoftwareMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVe rsionPoliciesExplorer
    Does that setting STAY at "0", or is something changing it to a "1"?

    --- I checked through regedit: the setting *is* a "0". It has not changed to a "1".

    2) IF, the problem is with "Save Settings on Exit", THEN other things besides just the Taskbar should not be saved on exit -- and most easiest to verify is the Desktop icons. If you move your Desktop icons around and then reboot, do the icons stay in their new positions, or revert back to the old spots?

    --- Interesting: Now that you mention it, I've also noticed that, regardless of how I place "new" desktop icons, or "rearrange" existing ones, after reboot, they're all back in alphabetic order. Incidentally, under Desktop Properties, "align to grid" is checked (as I've normally had it), while "auto arrange" is not (again, as always).

    3) Also, what about different users? Can you sign on as a new user, and does the problem occur on both accounts?
    --- Since I'm the only "user" here, I'd never created additional ones. Thus, when going into Safe Mode, I have only the option of signing on as "Administrator" or as "Dave". As I'd indicated, I've tried both through Safe Mode and got identical results.

    4) And there is no reason why a Group Policy would be implemented on your computer?
    --- Frankly, I'd never looked at what Policies in XP are... again, I've been the only user, and this "problem" showed up a while ago.

    5) Definitions: You're quite right; when I used "Start Bar", I was referring to the Task Bar. (That's a habit I picked up somehow years ago and I still do it unconsciously.) Thus, c'est bien vrai que "Task Bar was no longer 'on" meant that 'Lock the Taskbar' was unchecked."

    6) Google Desktop Toolbar: I'd have thought of it as a likely culprit, too... except that it doesn't show up in Safe Mode (obviously launches "later"), but in Safe Mode reboots, my Taskbar didn't retain settings (cf my earlier posts).

    Nostalgia: in the "old days", I'd simply have said "the hell with it", and reinstalled Win 3.11 over top... with very few resultant problems. Now, however...

    Thots?

    Thanks again!

    Dave

  11. #11
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    84,353
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 29 Times in 29 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    About 6): settings aren't restored or saved at all in Safe Mode.

  12. #12
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Long Beach, California, USA
    Posts
    1,912
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    (Edited by HansV to make URL clickable - see <!help=19>Help 19<!/help>)

    It is one of those weird twists of fate. I can get to all of the other pages at Kelly's, but using FireFox (FWIW) the Tweaks page ends up blank -- even now. I can't explain why -- the address seems to be a standard .htm page. (?FF issue?)

    The "Bags" entry for saving specific folders "view" and customizations. The BagsMRU entry tells Windows how many different folders it will allow you to customize. The default is apparently 400 (200 Local and 200 Network). The 1F40 changes the Local (NoRoam) value to 8,000 folders.

    Deleting the Bags key should reset your computer's ability to customize folders, and increasing the BagsMRU will increase the number of folders you can customize. Exactly how this relates to the QuickLaunch and Desktop Toolbars is not immediately clear, but a problem in this area certainly could be interfering.

    The SysTray.exe entry should only turn on the Tray (i.e., Notification Area) -- which is not really the same as the "Start" taskbar/toolbar -- but a subset thereof.

    The "NoSaveSettings" entry will correct a problem IF a policy has been implemented that prevents the user from "saving settings on exit". This entry seems to be the most likely one to fix Dave's problems -- but it apparently did not.

    What else prevents users from saving settings on exit? Incomplete shutdown? Something automatically reverting it back to the prior state?

    I guess the "settings" that we are contemplating must be in the ntuser.dat file?
    _________________

    Oops, I forgot about this! I believe the SysTray.exe file does not actually control the Tray -- at least, it never did in Win98. This was a very, very common misconception. Instead, I believe it only controlled the volume icon and a few other small tasks that mostly related to laptops. I don't know if it is the same for WinXP, but I will be removing SysTray from my Startup and I'll let you know what I find!
    _______________

    Eh, I cannot. SysTray is not started during a reboot, nor can I find it as a running process (with taskman or Process Explorer). So exactly what it does in XP is not clear to me... Microsoft identifies that ONLY the following Tray 'icons' are controlled by SysTray.exe in Win9X: Battery Meter, PC Card Status, Volume Control, Quickres, Task Scheduler.

    MS does say: The SysTray program (Systray.exe) is responsible for displaying the speaker icon when it is turned on and for hiding the speaker icon when it is turned off. In Windows XP, the speaker icon is hidden by default. In all other Windows versions, including Windows XP SP1, the speaker icon is visible by default.

    This is also an interesting read: http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/...9/10/54831.aspx
    However, since "common usage" is frequently the reason why dictionaries get updated, they seem to be fighting an uphill battle!

  13. #13
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Long Beach, California, USA
    Posts
    1,912
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    (Edited by HansV to make URL clickable - see <!help=19>Help 19<!/help>)

    It doesn't sound like they are. Weird. If the Desktop icons are doing the same thing (i.e., not being saved), then it is "Save settings on exit" that is the issue.

    Is there a Local Machine setting for that?? TechNet says "yes":
    ExplorerNoSaveSettings

    And this is usually set by Group Policy -- which is something Dave should not be dealing with. Regardless, Dave, check out the "Local Machine" entry for this here:
    HKLMSoftwareMicrosoftWindowsCurrentVersionPolicies Explorer

    If you see a "NoSaveSettings" Dword value, simply delete it. Delete the value entirely -- you don't need it.
    ____________________________________

    There are Trojans that can do this, but the one that comes up first (Krotten) does a lot more than just this -- Command Prompt doesn't launch, can't Run Regedit, can't bring out TaskManager, etc. And it sounds to me as if Regedit is running OK.

    Is there any other strange behavior that might indicate an infection? Certainly it would not hurt to try to run something like "HiJackThis" or "Spybot S&D" to verify.
    ______________

    Lastly, I ran into this program on Kelly's site: Taskbar Repair Tool. It may or may not provide something useful for you.

  14. #14
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,993
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    <hr>I come up with two possibilities for where the data is kept: ntuser.dat or the registry.<hr>
    Just for your information:
    NTUSER.DAT is part of the registry (which isn't a cloud somewhere outside normal files). The registry hives that together makes the registry database has individual support files with backup data.

    NTUSER.DAT, in the root of the user profile, is mapped, at start time, to the HKEY_CURRENT_USER hive. The profile also holds the NTUSER.DAT log file.

    The other parts of the registry are in System32Config together with their log files etc.

  15. #15
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,993
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Start Bar loses settings (SP2)

    <hr>The "Bags" entry for saving specific folders "view" and customizations. The BagsMRU entry tells Windows how many different folders it will allow you to customize. The default is apparently 400 (200 Local and 200 Network). The 1F40 changes the Local (NoRoam) value to 8,000 folders.<hr>
    Just for your information 2: As to the default BagMRU Size values:
    The OP mentions service pack level 2. In service pack 2 for Windows XP, the value was changed from 400 to 5000. See KB article 813711, under "Status"; "This problem was first corrected in Windows XP Service Pack Service Pack 2." (sic).

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •