1. ## Buckets

Professor Brown Owl of the Magic Forest University was devising some cunning questions for the New Year exams

1) If I were in The Magic Forest and dropped a golf ball into a bucket of water which is 45° Fahrenheit, and dropped another golf ball of the same weight, mass,and size in a bucket at 30° Fahrenheit at the same time, which ball would hit the bottom of the bucket first?

2) Same as question 1, what if I did the same experiment at the North Pole?

He showed the questions to Al Bear Einstein and JB who immediately started to argue.....why?

2. ## Re: Buckets

Welllll....

1] <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">Unless there is some trickery - i.e. it's not plain water - the bucket at 45°F</span hide>

2] <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">Is it safe to assume the water in the first bucket is still at 45°F at the North Pole? If so, the same as for answer 1.</span hide>

3. ## Re: Buckets

Oh come on Leif this is the Magic Forest....there has to be some twickewy <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

4. ## Re: Buckets

1] <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">Then assuming you are not using floating golf balls, and the golf balls are not at 1,000°C - enough to melt the ice in bucket #2 and enough to make the steam in bucket #1 propel the golf ball backwards - it's still got to be the 45°F jobbie.</span hide>

5. ## Re: Buckets

aahhaah...I see you made an assumption about <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">frozen water</span hide> I think you need to read more carefully Sir <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

6. ## Re: Buckets

It would hit the bottom of the <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">empty</span hide> bucket <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">at 30C</span hide> first.

StuartR

7. ## Re: Buckets

But what about the North Pole? <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">Empty can't freeze?</span hide>

If Stuart is wrong, has it to do with <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">the flow resistance of liquid at different temperatures?</span hide>

8. ## Re: Buckets

Well, you asked which would hit the bottom of <big><big>the bucket</big></big> first - you didn't specify <big><big>which</big></big> bucket, did you?
Soooo, I feel quite entitled to assume you meant the first bucket. <img src=/S/razz.gif border=0 alt=razz width=25 height=17>

<img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

9. ## Re: Buckets

<img src=/S/rofl.gif border=0 alt=rofl width=15 height=15> JB agrees with you Stuart, Al Bear took Leif's original point of view and hence the argument <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

..................and Rudi, weeeelllll Rudi is picking the third bucket <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

10. ## Re: Buckets

picking the third bucket >>>> or possibly the fourth dimension? (I thought it was a pretty good try! <img src=/S/drop.gif border=0 alt=drop width=23 height=23>

11. ## Re: Buckets

It was a good answer I had to think that one through. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

The triple point of water is 0.01 °C when pure water, ice and water vapour can coexist in a stable equilibrium. Viscosity changes as temperature increases from 32 °F upwards (below it will be ice)......anyway, that stuff is wwwaaaayyyy to difficult for JB

12. ## Re: Buckets

Am I missing something" I am not sure of the point of the puzzle or you mentioning the triple point. The triple point of water is at 0.01°C but this is "under vacuum" (0.006 atm).

I can see the first part of the "trick" being one of <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">semantics not physics</span hide> and that the 2nd bucket <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">has no water</span hide>. But when comparing <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">an "empty" bucket or more correctly a bucket of air</span hide> to a bucket of <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">"water" whether liquid, solid or air/vapor</span hide> the temperature of the location on the Earth is not an issue. [<span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">My original thought matched Leif's with the "puzzle" being the ice/water and not seeing the "empty/full" issue</span hide>]

And yes viscosity of water decreases as temperature increases (and it can be looked at as primarily due to expansion of the fluid) but you are still comparing a bucket of <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">air</span hide> vs a bucket of <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">water/steam and air</span hide> which will only approach the viscosity of the <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">air</span hide> at higher temperatures when the bucket is more <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">"airlike" and less "water like"</span hide>

Steve

13. ## Re: Buckets

<img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>
A bit of BS from me Steve, yes it is semantics but I was just seeing if I could chivvy on a discussion <img src=/S/evilgrin.gif border=0 alt=evilgrin width=15 height=15>

14. ## Re: Buckets

Why would I want to put golf balls in buckets <span style="background-color: #FFFF00; color: #FFFF00; font-weight: bold">- with or without water in them - in the first place? Golf balls should be dropped in "the cup" - preferably using as few strokes as possible!</span hide> <img src=/S/yep.gif border=0 alt=yep width=15 height=15>

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