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  1. #1
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    98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    I'll start this thread here on the Win 98 board but it may need to move to the Hardware board...

    I built my home PC in autumn 98, PII 300MHz, 66MHz FSB on a SOYO 6BE version 1 mobo (NOT a SY-6BE nor a SY6BE+ but a SY-6BE version 1). The RAM is a single strip of 128Mb PC100. OK, you can stop laughing now but it has served me well all this time. I am about to build a shiny new toy but that's another story.

    The other day I bought a PIII 600MHz, 100MHz FSB CPU (cost me <10) because the mobo BIOS settings implied it could cope with this chip. Sure enough when I fitted this super speedy chip to my machine it went through POST and into the Win 98 boot sequence.

    First boot got as far as building the 1024x768 desktop but not displaying the icons then it completely froze. There after because of the failed first boot it either went through a ScanDisk or offered a list of boot options. Choosing Safe Mode allows it to complete the boot sequence but as soon as you touch the mouse or hit a key everything locks again.

    I suspect the problem is the nominal speed of the RAM. The mobo requires "8ns or faster " when its running at 100FSB but only "12ns" is required for 66 MHz FSB. As yet I've not found out what my RAM is rated at but I'lll keep looking through original paperwork and I've yet to try http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php.

    Meanwhile, my actual question for this Win 98 software board is...

    Given the above background does anybody know if an alternative explanation for the failed boot could be that since Win98 was originally installed onto a PII system there are certain things deep under the bonnet configured for PII hardware that mean using PIII hardware would make it stall?

    Ken
    PS it all works fine again now I've put the PII chip back in

  2. #2
    Uranium Lounger
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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Ken,

    I'm not really a hardware guy, but I came across this information while looking into your question and thought it might be meaningful. From here.........

    "CPU Speed, Board Speed and Memory Speed: The speed of the CPU is not the speed of the motherboard. CPU's perform far more operations than the motherboard in any given space of time. There is a clocking factor that gives the multiple showing how much faster the CPU runs. On a Pentium II system with a 400MHz CPU the board speed is 100MHz the clocking factor is 4. What this means is that the CPU is performing four operations for every one operation of the board. Celeron processors run with a board speed of 100MHz (Celeron 4 CPUs run at a board speed of 400MHz). All Pentium II CPU's run with a board speed of 100MHz. Pentium III CPU's are available at 100MHz and 133MHz board speeds. Pentium 4 CPUs are available at 400MHz and 533MHz board speeds. The type of processor that you wish to use dictates the speed the board has to run and thus the type of motherboard required. The Intel 815 chipset for Celeron and Pentium III CPU's runs at 100MHz or 133MHz. The 845 and 850 chipset from Intel is designed for the Pentium 4 CPU's and runs at both 400MHz and 533MHz (older boards only run at 400MHz). The faster the motherboard the faster its busses are and the faster the computer performs. The busses link the various components of the computer together. Memory is required to run at the same speed as the motherboard. In the situation where the 815 chipset is used the board can run at either 66MHz, 100MHz or 133MHz. If the board is running a Celeron Processor that only uses the board at 100MHz then only 100MHz memory is required. In the event the CPU is upgraded requiring the motherboard to run at 133MHz the memory would also have to be upgraded. Due to the small price difference between the 66MHz, 100MHz and 133MHz memory it is advisable to purchase memory that will support the motherboards maximum speed. This will reduce the cost of ownership in the long run."
    <IMG SRC=http://www.wopr.com/w3tuserpics/DocWatson_sig.gif>

  3. #3
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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Edited 2/10/2008 ~0100 CST to correct spelling
    I think <!post=Doc Watson Post,694075>Doc Watson Post<!/post> has hit the nail on the head.

    When you try to put a more powerful engine (PIII 600MHz, 100MHz FSB CPU) into the same body of a car (SOYO SY-6BE version 1 MB), you need to adjust the "Gears" to allow the engine to work properly and NOT overdrive the car.

    Solution can be one of two options: BIOS Settings or updated MB Drivers.

    You can try the MB Settings and "Slow down" the CPU slightly so as not to overdrive the MB. You can change the frequency or Latency (delay in processing) or number of clock ticks the CPU takes to complete an instruction. You can try playing with other CPU Setting until you get one that works. If you could boot as far as you did the first time, this method (TEDIOUS) should work.

    The other option, the MB needs a firmware update or updated MB driver for the CPU to work. Unfortunately, I could not find an update for your version of the MB. Mine were for SY-BE+. Soyo Website had references for the MB under obsolete downloads - but no exact matches.

    I don't think W98 is the problem in your case - this appears to be a MB and/or firmware issue - not an operating system issue.

    NOTE:Initially I had no trouble getting to the Soyo Website, when I tried to test the links, the site went down.
    Scott

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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Thanks, that's more useful background info. I know about the CPU 'multiplier', the mobo is set correctly and POST correctly lists the new CPU as a PIII at 600MHz.

    I return to it being a memory speed issue via some simple maths. The mobo documentation that I quoted in my first post described the memory speed in terms of ns (nanoseconds) but no one seems to refer to RAM in that way. Instead, as in the article you cite, its referred to as 100MHz or 133MHz that leads to the maths:

    133MHz means 133 million cycles per second or 1 cycle per 1/133 million seconds and 1/133 million secs is 7.5 x10-9 secs, i.e. 8 nanoseconds. I'm pretty certain my RAM is 100MHz stuff, which works out at 1 cycle per 1/100million, i.e. 10ns and thus too slow.

    Ken

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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Hi Stuck,

    Some MBs allow you to change both the FSB speed and the CPU clock multiplier. You might find that, by changing the FSB speed back from 133MHz to 100MHz and upping the clock multiplier to from 4.5 to 6 will work; otherwise you could try just the FSB change - at least you'll have a 450MHz CPU that way.
    Cheers,

    Paul Edstein
    [MS MVP - Word]

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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Yes, there is a jumper on the mobo that switches the FSB between 66 and 100 but there are no hardware switches/jumpers to set the clock multiplier and CPU freq, they are done in the BIOS.

    I've not had much time to pursue this 'challenge' recently but my latest efforts suggested that regardless of what I select as the clock multiplier in the BIOS, that value is *automatically* overriden and set to 6.

    I've not tried leaving the FSB at 66 to see if the thing will go with 66 x 6 = ~400MHz, that does sound worth a try.

    My real problem is lack of time. Leaving the thing in bits all over the study so I can just tinker as and when I can, does not make for domestic bliss!

    Ken

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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Had some play time this morning...

    The PC works fine as long as I leave the motherboard FSB jumper switch alone, i.e. if I leave the mobo at 66MHz then the 600MHz chip works fine, but only at 400MHz (66x6). Next challenge is to work out why removing the jumper doesn't appear to change the FSB from 66 to 100.

    This seems to confirm that this is a hardware issue and not anything to do with the way a Win98 installation reacts to a new CPU. Please can a moderator move this thread to the hardware board?

    Ken

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    Re: 98 boot fail after CPU upgrade

    Your wish is my command... <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

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