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  1. #1
    born2run
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    Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Hi there. New to this place and hope to find useful info here. I'm an MS Word 7/95 user running Windows 98 SE. I write and edit for a living. Due to my generally contankerous nature, I'm sticking with my version of Word rather than paying for an upgrade. One way I get around this is by saving almost everything as an RTF file.

    Problem: RTF files that are saved as 12 point type in Word 95 are seen as 10 point type in Word 2000. Anyone know why? I thought RTF files included formatting for point size, etc. that would override the application's defaults. Word 97 seems to open up these files in their proper, native point size.

    Second question: Does anyone make an application that can back-convert a Word 97/2000 file to Word 7/95? I've been using StarOffice for that purpose (after deciding I was having too many problems to use StarOffice as my primary WP software), but SO seems to plant a bug in the files it back-converts that surfaces later.

    Thanks,
    ~born2run, unrepentant luddite

  2. #2
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    My thinking:

    The Word 2000 PC that's being used may have 10-pt font for the "normal" style. I would guess that the normal style is being chosen when opening RTFs that don't have other formatting applied. Change the default font on the 2K PC to be 12 point. This may help.

    Word 2000 should be able to SAVE-AS Word 7/95. If you can't, then they did not install all of the Tools and should have.

  3. #3
    born2run
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Thanks for the suggestion/explanation. Unfortunately, mine isn't the PC with Word 2000, so I can't change its default font. I use RTF so I don't need to have Word 2000 but can send the file to others who do have it. Is there any way I can tweak the RTF file to override the 'Normal' setting on the other user's Word 2000 machine?

    But also, re: your point about 'Other formatting' -- I thought the RTF by its nature would apply the formatting I've selected. Should I change my 'Normal' Setting in some way so that the document gets 'hard encoded' to format the text in 12 point?

    (My Word 95 Normal template is already set for 12 point as the default body type.)

  4. #4
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    I wonder if selecting all the text and manually applying the font size would keep the font size the same in Word 2000. Have you tried that?

    In Word 2000 there is an option to disable features that are not compatible with earlier versions. It is in Tools/Options. That might help when using different versions.
    egghead

  5. #5
    born2run
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Defining the whole text to set the font size isn't an option, because the text is not all in 12 point; there are various subheads, etc. in larger fonts, which don't seem to have a problem when the file is uploaded into Word 2000. Again, I have no control over what other users w/ Word 2000 do, I'm just trying to figure out why they don't see the RTF files I create in Word 95 with the same font size for body copy that I create them in.

  6. #6
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Because their styles are defined differently.

    Word 7 is far less robust than later versions, not to mention you lose the capability to avail yourself of extra features and grearly improved macro capability.

  7. #7
    BAM
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    <<Because their styles are defined differently>>

    Why does the recipient's style definitions make a difference?

  8. #8
    BAM
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Hi Born,

    Which file type are you using? RTF or Word 6.0/95 RTF? If memory serves, there was a problem with one of these formats.

    However, what problems are you running into leaving the file in a 95 format? Most word processors these days should be able to easily convert the older format.

    As for you opening the Word 97/2000 files, here is a convertor you can download so it can be done on your end, rather than theirs:
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://office.microsoft.com/downloads/2000/wrd97cnv.aspx>http://office.microsoft.com/download.../wrd97cnv.aspx</A>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Cheers! <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

  9. #9
    born2run
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Hi BAM, Thanks for the tips.

    You ask which type of RTF file I'm using. As far as I know there's just one type. At least, in Word 95, I only have the choice of one type. Just plain RTF. I'm not sure what a 'Word 6.0/95 RTF' is, as I don't see that type among my save-as choices. Further enlightenment is welcomed...

    The reason I don't normally save things as *.doc files is, if I'm expecting them back for further revisions and the recipient opens up the doc file, they're likely to save it as the later version of Word and then I'm stuck. However, I do send them as *.doc files if I'm not expecting them back.

    Thank you also you for the link you sent. I think that could be very useful.

    B2R

  10. #10
    BAM
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Sorry, I was thinking of the Word 97 'Word 6.0/95' format. Initially this was a RTF format with a *.doc extension rather than a Word format. If you installed the correct converter you then had 'Word 6.0/95 RTF' and 'Word 6.0/95"

    Anyway, this doesn't apply to your problem - sorry for the confusion. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

    I "dug" around a little and was unable to turn up and problems specific to Word 2000 and what you describe.

    Could you post an example so we could have a look? Also, are you using Styles for your formatting or applying formats directly?

    Otherwise, I think you could be successful with the converter. You save as a *.doc and if they update the file to a newer version then you should be able to open it again. I haven't utilized the converter in a work setting, I've only tried it to see if it actually works. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    Here is a KB article you might be interested in. It covers the limitation of going from Word 2000 to Word 6/95:
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q212/2/68.ASP>http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/ar...s/Q212/2/68.ASP</A>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Cheers!

  11. #11
    born2run
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Thanks again, BAM.

    Your idea of attaching a file is a good one. Attached is a sample file. It was written in Word 95 and then saved as an RTF. The text was set in 12 point type. If you open it in Word 2000, I believe the text will show up as 10 point. (I don't recall for sure, but I don't think this is a problem in Word 97. But it might be.)

    The question is what I can do at my end to make sure Word 2000 reads this as 12 point type without changing it to a DOC file. (Perhaps the answer is nothing.) The other question, which I guess has been addressed, is why Word 2000 reads the 12point type in an RTF as 10 point type.

    Please post here telling me what you see when you open this in Word 2000.

  12. #12
    BAM
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Hi B2R,

    Unfortunately I don't have Word 2000 installed right now but I think the problem lies in direct formatting vs. formatting with styles.

    First some background on Styles:

    Word was designed around utilizing styles. Think of a style as a format definition assigned to a paragraph. Unlike other word processors that use "ribbon style" formatting that plants start/stop codes around the text, Word looks the style assigned to the paragraph to obtain the formats for the text.

    If you have been using Word for awhile, I suspect you have encountered text "losing" its formatting and reverting to TRN 10pts on you. Now when this happens, most think "What a crappy program! Bill is getting how much for it???? <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15> "

    What is really happening is if Word ever questions a format, it will revert to the style that is assigned, which in essence is what you "told" it to do. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> If your formats are stored in the style, as Word was designed, then there is never a problem.

    At first some think this is difficult, however once they begin to utilize styles they find it is an extremely efficient way to format. One main advantage is the ability to change your mind regarding the formats quickly. All you have to do is modify the Style definition and all of the text associated with the style immediately change. I can reformat 100's of pages using styles in the same time it takes direct formatters to change the format for a mere 3-4 paragraphs. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    For more information on how to create styles take a look at this article:
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/legal/Styles.asp>http://officeupdate.microsoft.com/legal/Styles.asp</A>

    Now, how does this apply to the problem you are experiencing?

    The style utilized in your document is the Normal style and is set to TNR 10pts. So when it is converted in Word 2000, I suspect that it reads the style sheet, rather than the direct formatting and the text is reverting to the style definition.

    For an example, press <Shift F1> to turn on the "What's This" pointer and click in any paragraph to Reveal the formats. The formats in the Direct section are those that could possibly discarded.

    Instead of applying the formatting directly, modify the Normal style. I would also either create/modify a style for your Headings and Title:

    1. Go to Format/Style and modify the Normal style so it reflects TRN 12 pts.
    2. For your Headings, either modify Heading 1 to reflect TNR, bold, italic, underline, or create a new style with these format specifications.
    3. Do the same for your Title at the top and any other major groups of the same formats
    4. To apply the style (for all styles other than Normal), place your cursor in the paragraph, click the Style combo box and select the style.
    5. Place your cursor in the next paragraph the needs the same style applied and press <F4> to repeat your last action and apply the style.
    6. Repeat as necessary. <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

    You may not see any changes to the actual formats, but what is important is the style assigned. Press <Shift F1> again and take a look at the Reveal Formats now the formats are stored in the style, instead of as direct formatting.

    Once you've modified the styles, save as RTF again and post another example so those that have Word 2000 can verify that it is now working properly for you.

    Also, to make this easier in the future, the next item to consider is do you type these documents or are they sent to you?

    Oh, and once you've grasped styles, when you're ready to learn more of the "How to make Word work with you instead of against you" concepts, just let us know! <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Cheers! <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>

  13. #13
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Times New Roman 12 on my W2000, whih is what my default settings are. Rather than struggle with Star Office which I found to be a bit cumbersome try this free Office 2k compatible free suite:
    <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.software602.com/products/>http://www.software602.com/products/</A>. They have a range of office suites including a free one. Although I haven't used it extensively it looks pretty good. <img src=/S/cheers.gif border=0 alt=cheers width=30 height=16>

  14. #14
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    Re: Stick-in-the-Mud sticking with Word 7/95 (Word 7/95)

    Hi B2R,

    I did a bit of search at the MS site. They have a downloadable converter pack for Word 95 users somewhere in the Office Resource Kit toolbox. When installed, you can open Word 2000 docs without problems. I did work myself with such a converter for Word 97 docs and it worked good. Of course, if the Word 2000 users put some fancy tables and animated text in the docs, they'll be lost, but with RTF docs you are loosing even more features, including the useful ones.

    I don't know if styles are going to help, because I suppose they don't get saved in the RTF format. If you would send Word docs, you could indeed use your own styles.

    Here some links from the MS site to start with:

    Sharing Documents with Word 95 and Word 6.0 Users:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default....html/68t6_5.asp

    About Microsoft Office Converter Pack:
    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default....html/95t3_5.asp

    (just 2cents)

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