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  1. #1
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    Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Question: If a Folder is marked for archiving but the files within are not marked for archiving,
    does DOS XCopy create a folder but not the files? Or does it copy across the files, too?

    A Google query for the subject line turns up many posts in many forums that seem to say "Duh!",
    This Vista post seems typical, in that it discusses Files rather than Folders
    (the query made by the originator of the thread), but there appears to be no real use of the Archive bit on the Folder itself.
    I'm happy with the Archive bits on files, and have been using them for backup since July 1990, at least
    (SWEEP PCOPY *.* A: /B/BA/DC/FI/RO/SF)

    I ran a small test last night; on the laptop: I created a Folder B:FCreate with three files.
    Marked the folder and all three files Archive, using separate Right-Click, Properties, Advanced to do so.
    Let my regular backup run work (XCOPY command line below)

    This morning I note that the folder and three files appear on the backup drive (Good!),
    the archive bits on the three source files are OFF (Good!)
    but the source folder still has its archive bit set (Bad)

    Over on the backup drive, the Archive bit is ON for the folder and the three files (Good),
    so they will be collected in the next stage of backup.

    I left the source files as is (Folder =ON, Files=OFF), deleted the target folder and three
    files on the backup drive, and re-ran the batch job.
    The source folder is copied across by XCOPY, but the files within it are not copied.
    The source folder remains with its archive bit set ON.
    The source files are not copied, presumably because their archive bits are set OFF.
    The source indicates (Folder =ON, Files=OFF),

    Answer: XCOPY appears not to set OFF the archive bit on a source folder after it has been backed up.
    Second Answer:The Folder Archive bit will cause the folder to be copied, but not necessarily the files below it.
    Third Answer:Judging by the paucity of data on the web, the Folder Archive bit appears to be used but little.

    I realise that XCOPY is an old program, but it seems to me that any archiving/backup system ought to make a clear statement of its use, if any, of the Archive bit on a folder.
    Setting the archive bit ON could be a useful way for a user to signal that a fresh archive of the folder tree should be made.
    Leaving the bit turned ON after a copy has been made seems like a flaw/bug (in this case in XCOPY)

    <pre>REM Cocuments and SettingsChrisLbackUPD.bat
    REM Monday, September 17, 2007
    ::: (Generic backup batch file for use across the network)
    ::: /M Copies only files with the archive attribute set,
    ::: turns off the archive attribute.
    ::: /E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty ones.
    ::: Same as /S /E. May be used to modify /T.
    ::: /C Continues copying even if errors occur.
    ::: /F Displays full source and destination file names while copying.
    ::: /H Copies hidden and system files also.
    ::: /K Copies attributes. Normal Xcopy will reset read-only attributes.
    ::: /Y Suppresses prompting to confirm you want to overwrite an
    ::: existing destination file.
    XCOPY /M /E /C /F /H /K /Y
    REM end of ( )</pre>


  2. #2
    Super Moderator BATcher's Avatar
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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    I would suspect that most people have moved on from XCOPY to XXCOPY or ROBOCOPY, both of which have more options than you can shake a stick at...
    BATcher

    Time prevents everything happening all at once...

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    >I would suspect that most people have moved on from XCOPY to XXCOPY
    I agree that I'm old-fashioned; I will take a look at XXCopy

    Thanks for the tip!

    I'm now interested in why the FOLDER archive bit doesn't seem to get much of a mention.
    Perhaps because the newer programs do deal with it. I'll do some tests with XXCOPy and see what happens.

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Hi Chis,

    Albeit that I have moved on to Vista and all its new features, I still hold on to the use of XCOPY. My batch backup routines are similar to yours, except I do not use the archive bit but rather the date stamp. My batch files have been working for years without any hitches. I know it does not address your folder issue, but with my parameters, if the folder time stamp has changed then it would be copied... otherwise, its bypassed.

    One of my batch files:

    xcopy "data*.*" "hata" /d /e /c /h /y

    Where the /D parameter copies only those files whose source time is newer than the destination time.

    Anyway, just another approach...

    Cheers, Bob
    Regards,
    Bob

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Bob, thanks for the reply. The lounge was down when I got back, so I'm wading through responses.

    I'm glad that I'm not the only one still using something that works, although now I see that just as Xcopy was better than Copy (was I the only one using PCopy?), so it will make sense to move to XXCopy

    >except I do not use the archive bit but rather the date stamp.
    I see now that this might be a better deal.

    I made a tentative foray into XXCopy, but found the parameter set overwhelming, and running from the command line I got confused by the prompts (something like "A/D/S/R/..." RATHER THAN "y/n/a").
    I read a suggestion somewhere that XXCopy works like XCOpy and that I should should just replace the call and carry on with life, that is
    "xcopy /y" becomes "Xxcopy /y".
    Could be a good start, a confidence-builder.

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Shhhheeshhh, life is getting complicated !

    I just ran Xcopy /? to check for another parameter and saw this message: NOTE: Xcopy is now deprecated, please use Robocopy.

    OK, let's run Robocopy /? and see what it is all about. Holy Mackerel !!! In lieu of me showing you all the parameters check out Wikipedia for more info.

    Life was so simple in IBM/MS DOS days !!! <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    Cheers, Bob
    Regards,
    Bob

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Moly Hackerel indeed.
    Also http://www.xxcopy.com/xxcopy30.htm (Feature comparison)

    I trotted off to Download Robocopy and grabbed the 11Mb file.

    Knowing what you know of me (the good parts, at any rate), should I switch from XCopy to RoboCopy, or from Xcopy to XXCopy?
    My current investment in XCOPY is high, yet my investment in Robocopy and XXcopy both amount to nil, at this stage.
    (Your answer, if provided, will not incur you in any liability etc etc, tell the lawyers!)

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    You'll must attempt to make a judgement about the features unique to each program and their value to you (if any). If all things are equal I'd recomment you go to Robocopy as it is now released with Vista & Server 2008. As long as Microsoft keeps Robocopy as a standard OS too, that means just one less thing to worry about installing and being compatible in the future.

    Also, check out Robocopy GUI from Technet.

    Joe
    Joe

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    FWIW, I've been happily using Robocopy for my nightly incremental backups (to CD-RW) for several years now.

    The folder where I've parked all those Resource Kit files includes a 36-page Robocopy.doc which I assume came with the main download. (I note it just in case you hadn't noticed.)

    One MSFT-acknowledged bug that's worth mentioning is that once or twice a year (I forget if it's at both clock changes or only changes in one direction) Robocopy concludes that all the files on the CD-RW are older than the ones on the hard drive. (I believe I recall reading that this was scheduled to be fixed in the Vista version.)

    Here are a few notes I made at some point, in case they help get you started:

    For my CD-RW backups, each of my Robocopy command lines look like one of these:<pre> Robocopy c:Bin e:Bin /E /xa:T /NP
    Robocopy c:CorelSuite8Mac e:CorelSuite8Mac /E /xa:T /LOG:c:_tmpRobocopy.LOG /NP
    Robocopy c e /E /xa:T /TEE /LOG+:c:_tmpRobocopy.LOG /NP</pre>

    The /E switch includes subdirectories (including copies of empty ones).

    The /xa:T switch excludes files with the Temporary attribute.

    The /LOG switch sends the report to the designated log file (rather than to the screen). If you add a plus sign (LOG+), it appends the report to an existing log file (or creates one if it doesn't exist). And if you also add the /TEE switch, the report will be sent to the screen in addition to the log file.

    The /NP switch suppresses the progress indicator (% copied).

    There's no date/time switch because Robocopy's default behavior is to not copy source files to the destination if there's already a destination file with the same name that (1) has the same modified date/time as the source file and (2) is the same size as the source file.

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Hi Chris,

    You say your investment in XCopy is high. That being the case, I'd be tempted to leave well enough alone and stay with XCopy.

    Having said that, I'm going to take some of my XCopy routines and convert them to Robocopy, but only one or two for starters. I'll then run both XCopy and Robocopy routines for a week or so to ensure there are no glitches. If all appears to be OK, I'll convert the rest of the XCopy routines.

    (Bear in mind, that as a retiree, I supposedly have time on my hands to devote to a test project. And neither do I have any clients, like you have, that contribute to my nest egg.) <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    Cheers, Bob
    Regards,
    Bob

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    >There's no date/time switch because Robocopy's default
    Joe, thanks for the response and clarification on RoboCopy, especially this line.
    faced with dear old XCopy, XXCopy and Robocopy I'm probably going to fall back on XCopy, with the occasional foray into XXCopy.
    Part of my reasoning is that the switch settings appear to be in harmony, and XXCopy provides what is probably an overkill in switchware.

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    <P ID="edit" class=small>(Edited by chrisgreaves on 09-Jun-08 04:39. Afterhoughts added)</P>>I'd be tempted to leave well enough alone and stay with XCopy.
    Thanks Bob, and I am. I'll start switching over to XXcopy as I find that Xcopy doesn't do something I need (and XXcopy does).
    This weekend has seen me copying a 'laptop" folder from the 300GB to the 400GB; looks like it will finish Real Soon Now (tm) .

    In another thread <post#=713,746>post 713,746</post#> I was asking about files marked for Indexing. This morning I notice that XCopy appears to be marking the files transferred to the target drive as ready-for-indexing. This might be the cause of the marked files I've been seeing (and hence my desire for code to switch 'em all off periodically), and might be a good reason to switch to XXcopy or Robocopy.

    (Bear in mind, that as a work-from-home consultant, I supposedly have time on my hands to devote to a test project.) <img src=/S/thumbup.gif border=0 alt=thumbup width=15 height=15>

    (minutes later<img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> I have just realised that if XCopy is setting the "Indexme" bit, that bit might be yet-another test for novel files.

    Also thanks for the heads-up on the /D switch (in XCopy). That is starting to make more sense than the archive bits.

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Your highlighting the "date/time switch" line from my post made me realize it could be misinterpreted, so here's a clarification (just in case).

    When I said "There's no date/time switch because ...", I meant there's no date/time switch in my sample command lines (since Robocopy's default behavior is what I want), rather than that Robocopy doesn't have a date/time switch. Robocopy's 734 (just a guesstimate) switches definitely include date/time switches.

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Steve, thanks for this, and no need to worry.
    I'd gathered from reading the XXCopy page comparing the two that both products have similar objectives, and hence are most likely to have similar functions in their switches.

    All:
    I've learned something else about backup strategy/tactics:
    Imagine a 100GB laptop, and the ability to backup new/changed files to a 17GB SCSI drive merely by powering on the machine with the SCSI. This is a "walkway" solution which I love. (Lunchtime? Power up the IBM server with the SCSI and walkaway. Bedtime? Power up the IBM server with the SCSI and walkaway. Jupitertime? Power up the IBM server with the SCSI and walkaway). The 17GB SCSI has the most recent changes, files from today. Handy when I make that slip-of-the-fingers.

    Imagine a 300GB IDE that receives new/changed files from the SCSI at end-of-day.

    Imagine a 400GB IDE that receives new/changed files from the 300GB at end-of-week.


    I have spent the past 3-4 days making sure that the 17GB is faithfully updated across to the 300GB, and then, that the 300GB is faithfully updated across to the 400GB, using my new-found power of the Date switch rather than the Attribute bits.

    In retrospect I see that instead of (X)Xcopying the 17GB to the 300GB and then the 300GB to the 400GB, I should have (X)Xcopied the 17GB to the 300GB and then the 17GB again to the 400GB.
    That is, using the Date switch allows me to repeat the (X)Xcopy from the 17GB.

    It takes forever and a day of violent thunderstorms for any utility to scan a 300GB drive and compare it to a 400GB.
    It takes but an hour (at most) to effect the same operation on a 17GB.

    With the Archive bit mode, I was scanning the 300GB for Archiveable files. With the date switch, I can revert back to the SCSI.

    The use of the Date switch is, perhaps, the best value I've received from this thread!

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    Re: Folder is Ready for Archiving (XP SP2 )

    Batcher and all others in this thread who mentioned Robocopy.
    Thanks.
    What a blast!
    I'm copying files from both systems to a pair of external drives as we speak.
    Dead simple.
    Fast.
    A dream!
    Thanks again!
    RoboCopy rules!<pre>robocopy LapLapC15 F:Lap /s /r:0</pre>

    (Full batch file attached)
    Attached Files Attached Files

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