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  1. #1
    3 Star Lounger djmoore's Avatar
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    Nov. 12 Updates and IE 6?

    I get impatient sometimes, and more often than not it comes back pretty quickly to bite me in the you-know-what.
    I can't stand that little yellow shield in the SysTray and its annoying & inconvenient popups telling me that I may be at risk. And since there's no way to get rid of it, except for changing it to a red shield. I usually install the patches. I've learned that I just can't win.
    So I installed the latest batch - I still use Internet Explorer 6, since I use IE7 at work and cannot stand not having all the buttons in the same place they've been for ages now. So at home, where at least I am king (don't tell the Mrs.), I resist the upgrade.

    Well, as soon as I installed the new patches IE6 started to freeze - I would say 80% of the time - usually when I would open a new window, but sometimes when I would navigate to a favorite. But inevitably, almost every single IE window would lock up at some point - and usually within 5 minutes of being opened. I estimate the time - in many cases it was almost instantaneous.

    I gave it a day or two, during which I wondered what the heck the problem was (installing updates has become a non-event, apparently - it took me 2 days to remember I had done it), cursed at the machine, cursed at windows, and then realized I had installed updates and that I should uninstall them to see if it helped. Then another day to do that, since I was busy, of course.

    As soon as I uninstalled the patches - 3 of them - the problem went away (after the requisite reboot). Immediately. All I can do now is to wonder what might happen to my PC without those patches - because short of a major overhaul to the IE7 interface to make it look like IE6 and 5 - I will not upgrade to IE7. <img src=/S/brickwall.gif border=0 alt=brickwall width=25 height=15>

    Observations: I don't have the patch numbers handy, and will post them later - I am at work on a laptop with IE7 currently, and those patches I installed at home have not showed up here yet to be installed, even though I had the Updates on auto-install here. So are they strictly related to IE6? I doubt it - some of them, at least, have reached our servers in their Server 2003 costumes. But I will post the names later tonight from home, because when I uninstalled them in reverse order, the first two warned me as I uninstalled them that doing so would affect the functionality of the third - KB957057 (THAT one I remember). That's normal for patches that are sent out at the same time, I'm sure - but I wanted to point it out anyway. Just in case.
    Have a cookie -

    Don

  2. #2
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    Re: Nov. 12 Updates and IE 6?

    "And since there's no way to get rid of it, except for changing it to a red shield. I usually install the patches."

    And OS is? Windows XP SP2/3 I assume. <img src=/S/grin.gif border=0 alt=grin width=15 height=15>

    You can change warning messages in Security Center.

    I.e. I have warnings at "Off" for AU. If I set AU to, for example, "Notify me but don't automatically download or install them" I get the "yellow shield" in the tray (Notification Area, whatever), no matter that I have warnings off, since I deliberately told it to search and notify when PC is online. But:

    When I change AU to off, "Turn off Automatic Updates", as it is now, and most days of the month, I don't get a "red shield", since I have opted to suppress warnings.

    Anyhow, back to main topic.
    So your question is? <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15> What to do?

    "KB957057 (THAT one I remember)"

    Are you sure on "KB957057"? Wasn't it KB957097? The SMB update (they patched SMB the other month also, didn't they).

    The November 2008 (11 November) bulletin included two updates, so since you mention three, perhaps we have to wait until you can name the updates. But you are right, now when I think about it; the other one, MS08-069, 955218, is one of these updates to the XML Core Services, and there can be several; say SP3:
    Microsoft XML Core Services 3.0 KB955069
    Microsoft XML Core Services 4.0 KB954430
    Microsoft XML Core Services 6.0 KB954459

    From the 955218 FAQ, as per usual when there is a XML update:
    "Note Depending on which versions of Microsoft XML Core Services you have installed on your system, you may be offered more than one security update from this security bulletin."

    I.e. it's there in the OS, it comes with Office etc. Do a search for "Msxml*.dll" and you'll see a bunch probably (Vista also includes those awfully long manifest and .mum file names).

    It could be one of them.

  3. #3
    3 Star Lounger djmoore's Avatar
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    Re: Nov. 12 Updates and IE 6?

    Yep, XP SP3. Sorry for leaving that out.

    And again, yep - it was KB957097. I need to remember that my memory isn't what it used to be.

    The three patches I got were
    KB957097
    KB954459
    KB955069

    I uninstalled them all, and IE6 ran smoothly. Earlier today I started to worry about security, so I figured I'd try to install them again - one at a time. Because maybe it was just a bad install. But almost immediately, I can't have more than one IE window open without the entire system slowing to a crawl, and one or the other IE window locking up just like before. Adn this is just after installing KB957097 (and rebooting). The other two patches are downloaded but not yet installed.
    I can't imagine that this is supposed to happen after installing this patch - although I will go ahead and install the other two just to see what happens. grr. I may just grow to become fond of Firefox after all - Opera seems to have become slower and slower. But I don't consider IE7 and its 52-card pickup interface a serious option for me.
    Have a cookie -

    Don

  4. #4
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    Re: Nov. 12 Updates and IE 6?

    Have not heard much about the MS08-068 SMB update (a.k.a. 957097), yet. It is rated Important on all but Vista and 2008, where it is rated Moderate. As you may have heard, this is an old vulnerability, first reported to MSFT in 2001. The vulnerability is, as I understand it, relatively low, given what is mentioned in the bulletin and otherwise.

    So far I have only seen it mentioned with some other unrelated problems (not your OS, browser etc.).

    So the symptoms are:
    IE6 windows "freezes", locking up.
    Can't have more than one IE6 window open, otherwise it goes slow.

    I don't know if the "key" here is IE6, could be, but several still uses it.

    You don't get any error messages, do you? And for general reports: have you looked in the Event Viewer?

    Do you have all other security updates for XP and IE prior to the November batch? Has Internet Explorer 6 been stable and working all the time until this? Have you checked the PC with the latest definitions for your anti-virus and anti-spyware software?

    A little background reading about the MS08-068:
    The Microsoft Security Response Center (MSRC) : MS08-068 and SMBRelay
    And this one, though they most discuss the difference to Vista & 2008
    Security Vulnerability Research & Defense : MS08-068: SMB credential reflection defense

  5. #5
    3 Star Lounger djmoore's Avatar
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    Re: Nov. 12 Updates and IE 6?

    Answers to your questions:

    Can't have more than one IE6 window open, otherwise it goes slow.
    'It' being the entire system - all user accounts.

    You don't get any error messages, do you?
    No, no error messages of any kind - except for when I close the IE window (the only area of the screen that doesn't hourglass) - then I get the usual "this application has stopped working" and "do you want to send an error report?" popups.

    And for general reports: have you looked in the Event Viewer?
    I think I must be like the auto mechanic who drives a jalopy - I pay so much attention to everyone else's systems that I sometimes slack off mentally with my own. I don't usually check the Event Viewer on my own system, but there ARE several Application hang errors present. I "sent one of them to Microsoft" - if that's where they go. I don't know if anybody wants to see one of them here, but I'll include it at the bottom of my post.

    Do you have all other security updates for XP and IE prior to the November batch?
    Yes.

    Has Internet Explorer 6 been stable and working all the time until this?
    Yes

    Have you checked the PC with the latest definitions for your anti-virus and anti-spyware software?
    Yes - I currently use Avast! antivirus and a combination of Malwarebytes and Spybot malware detectors. AdAware too, occasionally.

    The Application Hang error in Event Viewer:

    Event Type: Error
    Event Source: Application Hang
    Event Category: (101)
    Event ID: 1002
    Date: 11/15/2008
    Time: 9:54:36 PM
    User: N/A
    Computer: MOORE
    Description:
    Hanging application iexplore.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

    For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
    Data:
    0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
    0008: 69 6f 6e 20 48 61 6e 67 ion Hang
    0010: 20 20 69 65 78 70 6c 6f iexplo
    0018: 72 65 2e 65 78 65 20 36 re.exe 6
    0020: 2e 30 2e 32 39 30 30 2e .0.2900.
    0028: 35 35 31 32 20 69 6e 20 5512 in
    0030: 68 75 6e 67 61 70 70 20 hungapp
    0038: 30 2e 30 2e 30 2e 30 20 0.0.0.0
    0040: 61 74 20 6f 66 66 73 65 at offse
    0048: 74 20 30 30 30 30 30 30 t 000000
    0050: 30 30 00
    Have a cookie -

    Don

  6. #6
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    Re: Nov. 12 Updates and IE 6?

    It is quite early after the patch Tuesday, and not much has been mentioned as far as I can see in MSFT Discussion Groups etc. related to IE6 or XP (some for Vista for example, but still not clearly related to the patch).

    On XP it is only one file changed with this update, as you know: mrxsmb.sys, the Windows NT SMB Minirdr. It is an odd result you experience.

    I did not ask but I guess it gets installed correctly; i.e. as you said when you install 957097 (and restart) you then get these problems with IE directly, but there is no odd behaviour during the install of the 957097 patch, you get a normal log file etc?

    BTW, you are using AU when installing, correct? Have you tried downloading the problematic update directly from MSFT Download Center and run that one instead? For example via their bulletin.
    Microsoft Security Bulletin MS08-068 Important: Vulnerability in SMB Could Allow Remote Code Execution (957097)

    It is of course possible to do other checks such as to run the System File Checker (SFC) to see if it finds something missed by the Windows File Protection.

    I am sorry I can't find a solution, or a cause, as you experience it in general web browsing.

    It is no consolation to you that some mentioned this as a quiet patch Tuesday. <img src=/S/sad.gif border=0 alt=sad width=15 height=15> If you can isolate the issues to the installation of the patch, as you have described here, and you cannot find anything else, there is, as you know, technical support from MSFT without charge if associated with security updates.

    See: How to obtain help and support for this security update
    MS08-068: Vulnerability in SMB could allow remote code execution

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