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  1. #1
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    New Style Level (2007)

    I'm starting to create new styles in Word 07, and hope to use a strategy I used in Word 03 - basing all styles on a custom "normal".

    However, it looks to me like Word 07 will not allow me to select an outline level when I define a new style - it is pre-selected to the level of the style I am basing the new style on.

    For example, I want to create a new heading style, based on my new custom normal. Normal is body level, and when I open the paragraph dialog to set the new heading style to level one, I find that the Outline Level box is grayed out, and pre-set to "Body".

    Is this a new "feature" of W07, or did I mumble the wrong spell when I attempted this?

    And while I'm at it: I find that only number lists are available when defining styles, and the multilevel lists are only available from the ribbon - correct?
    Stylus

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    That is interesting. On my Word 2007 machine, I can't change the outline level AS I create the style, but once the style is created I can go back in and edit the outline level. This takes a couple of extra mouse clicks but at least I can alter the outline level after the style exists. I don't recall seeing this behaviour before so I can't say whether it was the same in the earlier versions.

    You appear to have discovered a series of oops in the Word 2007 interface with the numbering that is available from the Modify Style dialog. I would apply a multi-level list element with a style by creating the outline list and "Link a level to style" which can be found in the Define New Multilevel list dialog. You used to be able to create a style this way but Word 2007 only allows you to select an existing style now. The multi-level numbering list appears difficult to edit once created because there is no Edit Existing Multilevel List command that I can find. Instead, you need to place your cursor in a paragraph which uses the top level of the list and then choose the "Define new Multilevel List" command.

    You might also want to have a look at this post on another forum.

    The reason I haven't tried to wrestle with this previously (in Word 2007) is that I routinely use macros to apply outline level numbering to styles. Doing so greatly reduces the problems you encounter with this aspect of Word.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    Thank you Andrew, that's helped.

    I've now gained a bit more experience with W07 and have been able to create some outline-numbered heading styles.

    Is it possible to delete a list style, so that it no longer appears in the mulit-level list dialog?

    I've discovered that in the Create New Style dialog, the "style type" dropdown box includes "list" as a style. When I experimented with creating a numbered heading style based on "list" as type, selecting "format/numbering" brought up the dialog box for multi-level lists instead of plain numbered lists.

    AHA! thought I, this is the way... I had already named this new style before attempting to format it, yet when I wanted to link this multi-level list to this new style I was creating, this new style name did not appear in the "Link level to style" box. So, I left it at "none".

    I completed the process and discovered that the newly created and named style, based on a list style, does NOT appear in the Styles display (I selected "styles to be shown" as "All") BUT the style DOES display under Bullets and Numbering in the Reveal Formatting pane. I hope I've explained this clearly enough...

    There is something I'm just not getting here, a new level of complexity that eludes me. If anyone can point me to threads or webpages that clearly lay out the way W07 manages styles, then I would be very grateful.

    And what on earth are "linked styles?" Do they replace what W03 created as "char" styles?

    The ribbon is nothing, it's these re-designed inner workings that I find really frustrating.

    Many thanks for any help, pointers or relevant experience.
    Stylus

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    The styles in Word 2007 don't appear to be too much different from those in Word 2003 but the top-level interface has had a major rework. There is essentially 4 different types of in the last few Word versions: Paragraph, Character, Table & List. You can also have a combination of Paragraph and Character.

    The Paragraph style is by far the most important. The others have varying degrees of usefulness. Character styles are useful for styling words within a paragraph but are limited because removing local formatting (Ctrl-Space and Ctrl-Q) removes them (and sets the selected content back to the Paragraph style only). Table styles are useful if you define them correctly but can be VERY tricky to control because of the many attributes that can be carried like first column, last row, alternate rows etc. Once you define these subattributes then it can be a nightmare to remove them from the table style. List styles are there but I have never seen a need to use them - as I said in an earlier post, I use macros to define and redefine numbered lists because they corrupt too easily.

    Linked styles refer to the ability of a series of styles to be linked together in a parent - child relationship so that you can change an attribute such as the typeface of the parent style and all children styles which share the same original typeface will automatically change to the new typeface. Normally people don't pay attention to the linked style attribute much so they sometimes get upset if they modify the Normal style and a whole bunch of styles based on Normal also change. I like this feature but many don't.

    Sometimes linked styles are created as a result of applying a paragraph style to a part of a paragraph - this leads to the 'char' style issue that has plagued the last couple of versions of Word.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    The items you see in the list library are not list styles. I call them numbering schemes. You cannot edit or modify these numbering schemes but you _can_ remove them from the list library. On the other hand, you can delete a list style. List styles appear in the list gallery, below the list library, and in the manage styles dialog.

    <hr>...yet when I wanted to link this multi-level list to this new style I was creating, this new style name did not appear in the "Link level to style" box.<hr>
    That's because the list style is not a paragraph style.

    In W2007, the styles pane only shows paragraph, character, and linked (paragraph and character) styles. Table styles appear in the table style gallery, and list styles appear in the list gallery. They all appear together in the manage styles dialog, along with the sixth style type default paragraph font (or document default). See http://"]http://blogs.msdn.com/microsoft_office_wor...s.aspx">http:// http://blogs.msdn.com/microsoft_office_wor...operations.aspx[/url] for more information about styles in W2007.

    <hr>And what on earth are "linked styles?" Do they replace what W03 created as "char" styles?<hr>
    Not quite. A linked styles is both a character and a paragraph style. If you apply a linked style to a part of a paragraph (when linked styles are enabled), just that part will take on the style and formatting of the linked style.Also, two paragraph styles can be joined without a hidden paragraph mark (or style separator), and run-in headings can be caught by the TOC. The char styles we saw too much of in W2003 and 2002 are broken linked styles.

    I agree that learning about these redesigned inner workings is harder than learning the ribbon.

    PamC
    Pam Caswell

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    Andrew & Pam:

    Thanks for the patient help. I've done what I should have done to begin with: slunk out in the dark of the night and bought a book... Oh the ignomy!

    Some things are clearer to me, others... well, try this: "The Define New Multilivel List command is for creating a list that you won't ever change. The Define New List Style command essentially provides "packaging" for a multilevel list that can be easily modified and shared with other documents." (This is from Word 2007 Inside Out, page 396.)

    Can anyone explain what the difference is between these two commands, and in which circumstances one should them?

    I already have a problem worthy of MS Word: I have made cascading bullet styles, levels 0 through 6. In the "Apply Styles Pane" they display in sequence and as a cascade, each farther to the right than the one above. BUT - in the Manage Styles pane, under the Edit tab, if I select "Sort Order" as "Based on" then most cascade in sequence, but two of them neither cascade nor are they even in sequence. (If I could figure out how to post an image I would show a screen shot). Yet, they work perfectly in the document... so far - but I just KNOW from bitter past experience that little anomalies like that will blow up later.

    I should buy a pith helmet and a machete for this journey. <img src=/S/confused.gif border=0 alt=confused width=15 height=20>
    Stylus

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    To post a screenshot: see Leif's A Guide to Attaching Screenshots

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    A list style is a named multilevel list that can be saved, shared, and modified. An unnamed multilevel list cannot. Other than that, there is no difference between a multilevel list and a list style. For most one-off documents that require little customization to the list itself, one of the default multilevel lists is fine to use. And defining a new to make minor changes is not a problem. For multifile and series documents that require a heavily customized list and for sharing lists between documents (via the organizer, for instance), the list style is better. Note that this is not new. In W2003 the terms were "outline numbered list" and "list style" (though many Word mavens called the "list templates").
    Pam Caswell

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    Pam, thank you - I think I have been basing styles on plain-vanilla multilevel lists, which may be causing some of the strange things I've found. I will back up and re-do all of my numbered and bulleted styles. Sigh.

    I'm having a go at posting an image, even though it doesn't display in the preview pane. If it shows online, then you can see how my bulleted styles do odd things when viewed as I describe in the post above.

    <IMG SRC=http://file://localhost/M:/Region Capture.jpg>
    Stylus

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    The image tag is intended for pictures that are stored on another website. To display a picture from your hard disk, click Browse... below the area where you compose your reply. Do *not* preview your post after that, for that will clear the "Attach a file" box.

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    Hans, thank you. I think the problem may be that I'm using Opera. I don't see a "Browse" button anywhere now while I'm posting. All I see is "Check Spelling" , "Preview" and "Post It". (I did see the browse button on the Controls page, so I was able to insert my "Scream" image.)

    Guess I'll have to install Firefox to display this picture. This isn't the first time that Opera, for all it's virtues, gives me a problem.
    Stylus

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    You can tell Opera to identify itself as Firefox on Woody's Lounge, perhaps that helps:
    - While on Woody's Lounge, select Tools | Quick preferences | Edit site preferences.
    - Activate the Browser tab.
    - In the Browser identification dropdown, select "Identify as Firefox" or "Mask as Firefox" (you'll have to experiment to see which works best).
    - Click OK.

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    OK, I've set Opera to "Identify as Firefox".

    Here is the image I've mentioned in my post 758,202. The bullet styles are cascading styles, in that each style is "based on" the the previous style. All these styles function normally - so far - and display as expected in the various ways Word show lists of styles... except the case I describe. Here is the screenshot.

    As you can see, bullet level 5 is based on level 4, but shows out of sequence and not indented from level 4. In use, level 5 is one step farther from the left margin than level 4. Level 6 is based on level 5, and is also not listed indented and not showing in any kind of sequence.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Stylus

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    I think the indention you are seeing reflects the based-on setting. You see, for the based-on view, Word indents styles under the style they are based on. For your bullets, each style should be indented under the one before. But the screen shot tells us that RB-Bull-6 is actually based on RB-Bull-1. Or there might be a circular based on somewhere. Anyway, that's where to start looking.

    Thank you for having this problem. I had barely glanced at the various sorts before today. I also discovered the font sort which is also really cool.

    PamC
    Pam Caswell

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    Re: New Style Level (2007)

    Pam

    Thank YOU for your help.

    I assure you that #5, selected in the screen shot, is based on # 4, and that #6 is based on #5, and that they all indent one more step for each level.

    However, after all this discussion about the two types of lists, I realize that I have built these styles on "plain" multi-level lists. I have never "created" and named a list. I also remember having a hard time getting all the levels to appear in the same box in the multi-level list display, In fact, the first several were in one box, and after that the next ones insisted on appearing in their own box. I kept deleting the new style (that was displaying in the wrong box) and fooling around until it APPEARED that they all were in the same box. It's possible that in fact, this sequence of six bullet styles are split over two different multi-level lists, and that is what is going on with this display.

    Normally I would end by saying who cares, but nothing is normal in Word. As I mentioned in a post above, my bitter experience is that if there is the slightest thing awry somewhere in the bowles of a setup in Word, it will absolutely blow up on me later when it's most inconvenient.

    And I agree that this sort function is interesting. It strikes me as having all kinds of potential when setting up templates for the dreaded users.

    Thanks to all for the help with this. I have a new question, but I will maintain thread discipline and open a new thread, since it's a new topic.
    Stylus

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