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  1. #1
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    Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    I am using FrontPage 2000-SR1 on Win98.
    I use File/Publish Web and a dial-up connection to update my site on my ISP's UNIX server.
    Frontpage asks me for a login name and password whenever I do this.

    I am the only administrator of the site and only contributor to the site.

    I have a subweb which I have password protected. Fifty users currently access the protected part of the site (all using the identical username and password).

    Up to a month or so ago, I used to be able to click Tools/Security, and then Set Permissions, and Change Password.

    Now when I click Tools, the Security option is grayed out.

    Can anyone help?
    Is this a problem at my ISP? They don't seem to know.

    Neil

  2. #2
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Are you editing your site remotely or setting the security and then publishing the site?


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    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  3. #3
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    I am doing everything remotely on a stand-alone PC.
    I have no control over my ISP's server

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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Have you moved your content or are you logging on to your Windows 98 machine differently?

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    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  5. #5
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Catherine,
    Nothing has changed at my end. Up to about a month ago I was able to assign usernames and passwords to 50 viewers using Tools/Security/Permissions. Now when I log on (Publish Web) to my ISP's server, Security is greyed out.

    Viewers continue to have to enter their usernames and passwords to view the subweb I protected. As I cannot now assign new usernames and passwords, I am having to assign existing usernames and passwords to new viewers. (Operationally I can live with this. Technically, it's nonsense.)

    I spoke to my ISP. They say they do not support the Security option of Frontpage -- but I used it to set up the passwords! I cannot speak to anyone knowledgeable at my ISP. Even the support boss is non-technical.

    I now believe my ISP has changed something on their server.
    I will be leaving my ISP as soon as I can find another host for my website (www.brentford-dock.org.uk).

    My question now is:
    If hosters say they support Frontpage extensions, should Tools/Security always work when logged on to the host server?
    If Tools/Security is optional, what does it depend upon? The whim of the hoster or are there some solid technical reasons? If so, what are they?

    I know PCs fairly well and can string the odd line of code together, but I know nothing of Unix, nothing of servers, and little of NT.
    Where does one find out about the interface (options, settings, etc) between dial-up Frontpage and the hoster's server?
    In Woody's "Using Office 2000", he recommends "Que, Using Frontpage 2000 Special Edition."
    Do you know if this gives the info I need?

    Phew <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
    Neil

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    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    This post gives some background to FP Server Extensions.

    To follow up with your particular case, yes the Server Extensions should handle the link between your ISP's webserver and security. However, I can't truly speak to what happens if the ISP is using a UNIX machine. On an NT machine *you* wouldn't be able to create users, just assign permissions to those already existing. This is why many people who require a controlled access website use java based solutions so that they can maintain their own user db.
    Were you assigning various levels of permissions?

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    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  7. #7
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Catherine,
    Thanks for your info.
    I gave myself read, write and administer permissions. All the others are browse only.
    In the past I have used the "Gatekeeper" Javascript to protect certain pages. I know there are other JS scripts about which do similar things.

    I wanted to experience all of the bots / extensions in Frontpage so I could evaluate it as a web creation/management tool.
    It is aggravating that some you can use and some you can't -- and that your ISP/host can switch some off.

    Back to the learning curve <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
    Thanks again
    NeilO

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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Hi Neil
    Your current ISP has probably recently changed over from an NT based server to a Unix set-up (or from Unix to something else). However, they will have promoted themselves as supporting / not supporting MS FP extensions. It's all very well for free ISPs to change their minds at will, but if you're paying cash up-front for a service, and they curtail it (probably within their Terms and Conditions) you have the ultimate sanction : vote with your feet and find someone that does do what you want. This, of course, assumes a modem and DUC. Cable may be rather more difficult.
    On the other hand, are you sure FP server-side extensions are worth the candle? I think you might find better solutions with Active Server Page support - always assuming you can find someone in your price-bracket that does it.

    Rgds

  9. #9
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    I do have some sympathy for ISP's in the area of security/access controlled sites. But, if they can't talk to you about what they've done (or worse, make changes then don't understand what they've done) - then I agree with Mel, Vote with your feet!

    Personally, I'm so annoyed with my last ISP for offering a help desk staffed with attitude driven (attitude - you're a girl, what could you know) 19 year olds. That I cancelled my service, the fact that they haven't bothered to take the site down just shows how sloppy they are.
    But I digress....

    Using an ISP that supports FP Server Extensions, and combining that with other methods of creating your own security access DB, would allow you to play with many of the other features of FP and I think (as I've said elsewhere) that starting with FP 2K that the site management features are really strong.
    Mel's mention ISP's that support Active Server Pages, I can't speak to this, but I'd be curious, Mel at hearing more about how this might differ from trad. FP Server Extension support.

    Cheers
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  10. #10
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Mel, Catherine,

    I have just found out how to do it !!!

    Do not open FP.
    Dial up and view the home page of your site in IE.
    Click the Edit button on IE's top toolbar.
    FP 2000 opens.
    After a short delay a dialogue box asks for your username and password.
    Enter them and click OK.
    THEN you can click Tools / Security and it works.

    (I think FP 2000's installation program either puts the Edit button on IE's toolbar, or assigns FP to the Edit button.)

    So much for my ISP (Ision) who told me I could not do it!
    Mel, they tell me I have always been on a UNIX server.

    Are FP server-side scripts worth it?
    I tried the discussion forum and abandoned it. I could not control the format of the headers of the users' posts (From, Date, Comment). I used CSS to control the text of the post. I thought FP 2000's discussion forum was user UNfriendly.

    Password protection (Tools / Security) seems to do about 70% of what I want to do. I think it is administrator UNfriendly.

    I use the FP Search This Site script. That seems to work OK but I cannot (have not found out how to) control the font of the returned table of finds.

    I gave up on the FP Message to Email script. There are better cgi scripts about.

    Thanks for all your info and support.
    I don't feel so alone anymore <img src=/S/smile.gif border=0 alt=smile width=15 height=15>
    Neil

  11. #11
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    Re: Another Tools Security Problem (FrontPage 2000-SR1)

    Cool - thanks for the feedback.

    The Search function is somewhat limited - that is one area where I've always found it useful to use a more powerful searching function, like those that come with IIS. Perhaps your ISP has some searching software you can connect to.

    Cheers
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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