Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    3 Star Lounger baumgrenze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    253
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I am running XP-Pro SP-3 on a 2.40 gigahertz Intel Core2 Quad Q6600 equipped, one-year-old machine.

    I find myself frustrated this morning. I am wondering if it is possible that the maintenance of a Microsoft operating system has reached the level of complexity of maintaining a Linux machine. If this is the case, I wonder at the desirability of continuing to pay MS for their software and tolerating their increasing Big Brother intrusion.

    Yesterday I installed SP-3. Suddenly Secunia thought I should install updates it had not listed before. It does not tell me what I need from MS; it just tells me "trust MS and let them modify your machine to their satisfaction."

    I ran a Belarc scan and was told the following:

    These required security hotfixes (using the 03/10/2009 Microsoft Security Bulletin Summary) were not found installed. Note: CIS benchmarks require that Critical and Important severity security hotfixes must be installed.

    KB954459 - Important (details...)
    KB938464 - Critical (details...)
    Q958690 - Critical (details...)
    Q960225 - Important (details...)

    The MS Shield in my System Tray (MS Automatic Updates nag feature told this story.

    KB954459 Security Update for MS Windows
    KB951978 Update for Windows XP
    KB905474 Windows Genuine Advantage Notification
    KB890830 Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool

    There is only one update in common, and Belarc rates it as Important rather than Critical.

    I searched via Google for KB954459 and KB951978. I opened the MS hits. For KB954459 I found a page with a button to download the patch. I did have to decide which patch of three to choose. When I attempted to run the executable file I'd downloaded a pop-up informed me that the 'setup was interrupted.' It offered no explanation why.


    When I did the same for KB951978 the page that opened did not have a download button, just a reference to it. A bit of research suggests that I must first download KB905474 or I will be denied access. Is this true?

    If I had to do this much messing around every time I wanted to use another tool in the house, I'd have no time to do anything but tool maintenance.

    Am I being wrong headed in:

    1) not wanting to use IE, preferring to use Mozilla SeaMonkey instead?
    2) being mistrustful of MS and their whole automatic update process, being concerned that their agenda is to maximize profits (and to protect their friends, e.g., DRM) at my expense?

    I apologize for the rant. I should be printing out my taxes and getting them ready to sign.

    Thanks for any insights

    baumgrenze
    Baumgrenze
    Hier sind wir tief eingewurzelt.

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    84,353
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
    I don't find managing Windows to be difficult. I have Automatic Updates set to notify me of new updates; I always take a look at what's offered, but then simply allow all of them to be installed. This hasn't caused any problems for me for several years now. So it takes me 10 minutes per month or less.

    Which browser you use is a matter of preference - all of the 'major' browsers do an excellent job in my opinion (I mainly use Internet Explorer - version 8 by now - but also test things in Mozilla Firefox 3 and Google Chrome). Despite all the horror stories about security holes in Internet Explorer I haven't had any malware infection; as long as you use a good set of security programs and keep them up to date, and excercise reasonable precaution, your computer is safe.

  3. #3
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    20,554
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 614 Times in 550 Posts
    [quote name='baumgrenze' post='768733' date='01-Apr-2009 13:28'][/quote]

    I second what Hans posted. That is my experience at home & at work. Plus at work I have an Update server where I review the monthly updates and approve them for distribution. I couldn't tell you the last time I had a problem with the updates.

    Joe

  4. #4
    Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    47
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Am running both WinXP sp3 and Fedora 10 & 11 beta. I agree XP is showing its age. Looks likely that the rumblings about them releasing Win7 next January (2010) are getting more a reality. After its release last Nov, Fedora 10 had at least 25 critical updates and over 200 'patch/improvement' updates. If you rely on Excel or Access, then the decision is clear. You are going to Win7 within a year of its release. Otherwise there will be a least 50% chance you might be lured over to Linux. I'm certain MS is aware of this. Your only decisions are when do you go over, at 12, 13 or version 14; they release every 6 mos like clockwork.
    If ease of use is more important than security, then you might choose Ubuntu. It has a similar release discipline. It also is a version of Security Enhanced Linux (SELinux) but it is less straight-forward to tweak. Also it is not hung up about licensing, so it comes with mp3/mp4 support.

  5. #5
    Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    47
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    [quote name='baumgrenze' post='768733' date='01-Apr-2009 08:28']1) not wanting to use IE, preferring to use Mozilla SeaMonkey instead?
    2) being mistrustful of MS and their whole automatic update process, being concerned that their agenda is to maximize profits (and to protect their friends, e.g., DRM) at my expense?[/quote]
    (sorry, this may be illogical in places, but that is due to my "reliable" HP laptop. There is a bug in the keyboard driver which changes the insertion point at random times)
    I love the "monkey"! IE has been chasing it for years. Besides having it's mail client integrated, you can't beat the ability to go into Edit on a page you are viewing and save a copy of it just the way you want. Many pages won't let you save them directly. Seamonkey isn't omniscient, but it lets you strip the page. I use it with a copy of Apache so I can serve up the page as well, not just display it.
    I like the mail client because it works more intuitively for me. Also, I hate the way I had to re-config Outlook all the time to turn off all the annoying features. Also I like its message filter. Bookmarks are written to an HTML file, so you can play around with them. It also has a download manager like firefox, but is much easier to use and helps you make decisions on the spot about whether you want to continue a slow download. It remembers where you downloaded the file....
    I couldn't live without the password manager. I mean every joe blow wants you to be special for them, but I never use the same password at any two sites so there are hundreds of passwords to keep track of and mostly it is for the security of the site. Strong passwords should contain special characters! Lots of sites don't allow them. That makes short passwords like 8-12 characters easy to crack... well, if you are into that kind of thing. Remember computers are getting exponentially more powerful each year. For about 2 grand you can network 8 playstations which make one powerful super computer. Everything is relative and time marches on and all that...
    Seamonkey is also ported to Linux. I use it under Fedora 10. The versions are different, but that is mostly because Windows needs different security patches than Linux. They also us different plug-ins. So, for example, the Flash-player plug-in for Linux has more bugs in it than for Windows and the 64-bit version barely works. But Adobe supports that and will allocate resources as demand dictates. Trust me, just because it is free doesn't mean they don't support it. PHP (Zend) and Google have changed that game forever. So expect Microsoft to take a softer line on that stuff.
    Oh, and did I say it is faster? That and tabbed browsing sold me years ago. I would have twenty copies of IE on my desktop and then my machine would hang or crash. I keep IE around but frankly I use it about 4 times a year; when I hit a site which refused to let me use a different browser. That is a BIG reason not to visit their site.

  6. #6
    Lounger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
    Posts
    47
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    The problem is not with whether the Updates are a problem, it is whether they BREAK some other piece of software. It can be a real catch-22. Here is an example. My machine from 2-3 years ago came with Cyberlink Power2go cd-dvd burner. I must have at least 4 different pieces of software which burns CDs. A few weeks ago it started failing after applying Updates. Did the update cause the problem? Unfortunately the software is now a very old version. They would rather sell me the new improved version.
    Being an old IBMer, this is an all too familiar scenario; we call it 3rd party support hell. Fedora has made a point of getting a large number of people to tryout fixes. RPM, Yum and now Update Manager are designed specifically to address this problem. I'm not saying it is better than MS, but everyone is in on the 'secret'.
    In a nutshell, for some of us computers are like cars; we have them for utilitarian purposes, not as a fashion statement. Excuse me, how many times do I need to buy "Sgt. Pepper's"? Now I am 64, but I think I was about 21 at the time. I think once in 40 years is enough. The saying is, "What have you done for me lately?" Treat yourself, Google Ruzsa Magdi Highway to Hell!

  7. #7
    Super Moderator BATcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    A cultural area in SW England
    Posts
    2,832
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 110 Times in 104 Posts
    [quote name='wmfay1' post='769833' date='09-Apr-2009 04:49']Excuse me, how many times do I need to buy "Sgt. Pepper's"?[/quote]
    If you'd bought it each time it was released, messed around with, and so on, that would probably be about seven times so far.
    And from 09/09/2009 you can buy the Beatles' entire back catalogue, digitally remastered!
    BATcher

    Dear Diary, today the Hundred Years War started ...

  8. #8
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    20,554
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 614 Times in 550 Posts
    [quote name='wmfay1' post='769833' date='08-Apr-2009 22:49'][/quote]

    This is a response to all three posts.

    Post 1. - The vast majority of users do not want to upgrade their desktop operating system every 6 months. They want to make a very small number of tweaks to the visual aspects and then just have it work. I don't know where you come up with "50% chance you'll be lured ove to Linux". In my experience, the only people who are likely to make a choice to migrate to Linux are tech enthusiasts. Almost everyone else gets their OS with a new PC and does not updgrade it. They want their favorite apps to work and most likely their favorite apps are Windows based.

    Post 2 - Use Seamonkey if you wish. That is fine. As Hans posted most modern browsers do a good job. However, when was the last time you looked at Outlook? I've not had to re-configure Outlook when I upgraded it for quite a number of releases. There are any number of free and shareware password managers available. What's the big deal about that? I don't get what you mean by "expect Microsoft to take a softer line on that stuff". As far as IE goes you ought to take a close look at IE8. I've been able to save the source for any page I've tried so far.

    Post 3 - Most of the issues with third party software on Windows systems, especially those that interact closely with hardware as older versions tend to do, are because they do not follow the driver model and try to get cute about a function. Microsoft has a huge battery of tests that are run when fixed are integrated into a Windows version. That most certainly does not cover all the bases. The vast number of unique hardware and software combinations make complete testing an impossibility. BTW, what is the "secret" everyone is in on but Microsoft?

    Joe

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •