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  1. #1
    liner
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    We use a preprinted letterhead for the first page, requiring a 2.5 inch margin at the top. The remaining pages, if any, use a 1-inch margin.

    Is there a way to set up the document so that the second page automatically has a different margin?

    I could type the document, and if it goes over a page, I could then add a section break with a different page format. But really, that seems like something out of WordStar (am I showing my age?).

    While trying to do this, I set up a dummy document, using paragraphs to get to a second page. I tried formatting the document "with a different first page". When I go to the second page, either via the view header or simply moving there, any margin changes I make apply to the whole document. And, it seems to make no difference if the header is linked to the previous header or not.

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger
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    In the Header and Footer Design tab, click Different First Page, then add a rectangle to the first page header. This should be the width of the page and have a height that will include your pre-printed heading. Set this rectangle to have no fill, no outline and with a wrap option of In Line with Text.

  3. #3
    liner
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    [quote name='StuartR' post='792014' date='03-Sep-2009 14:24']In the Header and Footer Design tab, click Different First Page, then add a rectangle to the first page header. This should be the width of the page and have a height that will include your pre-printed heading. Set this rectangle to have no fill, no outline and with a wrap option of In Line with Text.[/quote]

    Thanks. That works just fine. I knew that there had to be a way to beat Word over the head with the proverbial 2x4!

    I also tried another trick that works. Our standard margin is 1 inch. I set the header margin to 1 inch, and then formatted the paragraph. I set the height of the paragraph to 1 point, and then set the space AFTER the paragraph to be "2.5 in". Word accepted that input and converted it to points. I then went to a second page and set the paragraph to my normal needs (regular height, page number, and 12 points after to give some spacing between the page number and the text.)

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    [quote name='liner' post='792189' date='04-Sep-2009 16:29']Thanks. That works just fine. I knew that there had to be a way to beat Word over the head with the proverbial 2x4!

    I also tried another trick that works. Our standard margin is 1 inch. I set the header margin to 1 inch, and then formatted the paragraph. I set the height of the paragraph to 1 point, and then set the space AFTER the paragraph to be "2.5 in". Word accepted that input and converted it to points. I then went to a second page and set the paragraph to my normal needs (regular height, page number, and 12 points after to give some spacing between the page number and the text.)[/quote]


    I'd guess, from your description, that you put a section break at the end of the first page. That could be inconvenient for users, as they may have to manually move text around the break. For letterhead it's better to use different first page, with the main header unlinked to previous (in this case the first page header). Users can then take advantage of Word's calculated page breaks or insert manual page breaks without affecting the headers and footers.

    Pam
    Pam Caswell

  5. #5
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    Hi, Pam,

    The Different First Page option doesn't entirely solve this particular issue because, although it does let you have different headers and/or footers on the first page, it doesn't allow you to set different page margins for the two sections. I've run into a similar issue when trying to assist a few clients who wanted to set up letterhead where the top or side margin on the first page differed from the margin on successive pages. Unless you use the inelegant and inconvenient solution of inserting a section break at the bottom of page 1 -- which, as you point out, has many shortcomings -- you have to find a workaround.

    Jan
    Author, Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2016,
    Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2010​,
    and Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Office Word 2007

    For Word and WordPerfect tips, visit my blog at http://compusavvy.wordpress.com

  6. #6
    Plutonium Lounger
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    [quote name='janbphd' post='792330' date='06-Sep-2009 17:30']Hi, Pam,

    The Different First Page option doesn't entirely solve this particular issue because, although it does let you have different headers and/or footers on the first page, it doesn't allow you to set different page margins for the two sections. I've run into a similar issue when trying to assist a few clients who wanted to set up letterhead where the top or side margin on the first page differed from the margin on successive pages. Unless you use the inelegant and inconvenient solution of inserting a section break at the bottom of page 1 -- which, as you point out, has many shortcomings -- you have to find a workaround.

    Jan[/quote]
    The different first page option works fine. You just have to put a white shape into the header or footer of the first page that causes the text to wrap, so that it avoids the letterhead.

  7. #7
    liner
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    [quote name='PamCaswell' post='792329' date='06-Sep-2009 11:11']I'd guess, from your description, that you put a section break at the end of the first page. That could be inconvenient for users, as they may have to manually move text around the break. For letterhead it's better to use different first page, with the main header unlinked to previous (in this case the first page header). Users can then take advantage of Word's calculated page breaks or insert manual page breaks without affecting the headers and footers.

    Pam[/quote]

    Hi Pam. Actually, I did NOT use a section break. But, to set up the second page when you use a "different first page" in page setup, you must have a second page. I used enough paragraph breaks (aka "enter") to get a second page.

    I then deleted all my breaks to get a single page, as I was saving the document as a template. To check what happens, I opened the document from the template, and added a second page by adding paragraph breaks; the revised second page was still there. I also tried adding a manual page break (ctrl+enter) and the same thing happened. So, I am quite happy with this effect.

    Note that changing the paragraph style works (my second solution); adding the "rectangle" (actually a graphics box with nothing in it and no lines outlining it) both work nicely.

  8. #8
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    [quote name='janbphd' post='792330' date='06-Sep-2009 12:30']Hi, Pam,

    The Different First Page option doesn't entirely solve this particular issue because, although it does let you have different headers and/or footers on the first page, it doesn't allow you to set different page margins for the two sections. I've run into a similar issue when trying to assist a few clients who wanted to set up letterhead where the top or side margin on the first page differed from the margin on successive pages. Unless you use the inelegant and inconvenient solution of inserting a section break at the bottom of page 1 -- which, as you point out, has many shortcomings -- you have to find a workaround.

    Jan[/quote]


    To prove it to yourself that it works, try this. Open any blank page in W2007 (though I think this works in W2003 as well). Enter some text at the top, a page break, and some text on page 2. Enter the header on page 2, put a check in different first page, and make sure that link to previous is off. Click "Previous Section" (which should read "next header/footer, since these headers are in the same section) so that you'll be in the "First Page Header". Now enter a few returns and watch the text you typed, as well as the dashed blue line, move down the page. Click "Next Section" and notice that the text at the top of the second page is still just below the set margin.

    I think MS devised this feature for exactly this purpose.

    Cheers,
    Pam
    Pam Caswell

  9. #9
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    [quote name='liner' post='792341' date='06-Sep-2009 15:01']Hi Pam. Actually, I did NOT use a section break. But, to set up the second page when you use a "different first page" in page setup, you must have a second page. I used enough paragraph breaks (aka "enter") to get a second page.

    I then deleted all my breaks to get a single page, as I was saving the document as a template. To check what happens, I opened the document from the template, and added a second page by adding paragraph breaks; the revised second page was still there. I also tried adding a manual page break (ctrl+enter) and the same thing happened. So, I am quite happy with this effect.

    Note that changing the paragraph style works (my second solution); adding the "rectangle" (actually a graphics box with nothing in it and no lines outlining it) both work nicely.[/quote]

    Whew! Glad to hear you got everything working.

    Pam
    Pam Caswell

  10. #10
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    I haven't been able to get the Different First Page option to work in the manner you describe in any of my tests -- and I have done extensive testing over the past couple of months -- except when using a workaround such as the ones suggested here. It has worked fine for creating a different first page header and/or footer, but not for creating different page margins.

    I'm certainly happy to take another look, however.

    Jan
    Author, Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2016,
    Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2010​,
    and Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Office Word 2007

    For Word and WordPerfect tips, visit my blog at http://compusavvy.wordpress.com

  11. #11
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    Okay, I followed your steps exactly in sequence, and they appear to have worked.

    Now I'm not sure what method I tried before. I'm well aware of the DIfferent First Page option and the importance of breaking the link to the header (or footer) in the previous section, so I'm sure I made use of both. Perhaps it's trickier when you're not starting from scratch?

    I'm going to go review my notes.

    Thanks for your help.

    Jan
    Author, Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2016,
    Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2010​,
    and Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Office Word 2007

    For Word and WordPerfect tips, visit my blog at http://compusavvy.wordpress.com

  12. #12
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    Ah. I think I figured out what I had been doing wrong: I was trying to change the margins via the Page Setup dialog, and that didn't work.

    Of course it didn't. I was attempting to change the margins for one section. As Pam points out in discussing the misleading label on the "Previous Section" button, the two different headers (the First Page Header and the "main" Header) belong to a single section. So you're not actually changing the margins, or even the header margins, per se. Rather, you're manually enlarging one of the headers by pressing the Enter key to create more blank space.

    Very clever. And -- until you spelled things out for me -- very confusing!

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I have rewritten my notes and my handout on that topic. Much clearer now.

    Jan
    Author, Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2016,
    Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Word 2010​,
    and Formatting Legal Documents With Microsoft Office Word 2007

    For Word and WordPerfect tips, visit my blog at http://compusavvy.wordpress.com

  13. #13
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    [quote name='janbphd' post='792356' date='06-Sep-2009 17:36']Ah. I think I figured out what I had been doing wrong: I was trying to change the margins via the Page Setup dialog, and that didn't work.

    Of course it didn't. I was attempting to change the margins for one section. As Pam points out in discussing the misleading label on the "Previous Section" button, the two different headers (the First Page Header and the "main" Header) belong to a single section. So you're not actually changing the margins, or even the header margins, per se. Rather, you're manually enlarging one of the headers by pressing the Enter key to create more blank space.

    Very clever. And -- until you spelled things out for me -- very confusing!

    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I have rewritten my notes and my handout on that topic. Much clearer now.

    Jan[/quote]

    I learned a great deal of what I know about Word from folks here and at other Word forums (I had to; MS's documentation is scant.), and I'm happy to pass it on.

    Pam
    Pam Caswell

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