Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 37

Thread: Tongue tied

  1. #1
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I'm in need of a solution in adapting a Lockwood 001 Deadlatch to an outward opening door. The picture shows the setup for the normal inward opening door.

    The problem is that when I try to close my door, the flat face of the lock tongue will just slam up against the face of the strike and won't experience any sideways force to cause it to retract (then spring back open inside the strike).

    The strike is actually irrelevant in my situation, because I'll be using a cutout in a box tubular steel door jamb, which I can fiddle with at will. The lock must be mounted as shown on the inside of the door, and its internal construction prevents flipping the tongue over.

    What I'm thinking of is some sort of smooth curve that the end of the tongue can sweep over as the door is closed. Such a curve (or cam or plate or whatever) would have to provide the necessary sideways force/displacement to the tongue to depress it (gradually to the fully depressed position) as it moved towards its receptacle hole in the strike. Any solution would need to be secure when the door was closed, so as not to allow vulnerability to forced entry.

    Well, I'm stumped! Any bright ideas?

    Alan
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger Leif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    14,010
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    My initial reaction is that if you leave the 'tongue' as is, to open the door, all you (may) need to do is push/pull, as the curve that allows you to easily push to door closed under normal operating circumstances will allow the opposite in your configuration....

    N'est–ce pas?

  3. #3
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    My initial reaction is that if you leave the 'tongue' as is, to open the door, all you (may) need to do is push/pull, as the curve that allows you to easily push to door closed under normal operating circumstances will allow the opposite in your configuration....

    N'est–ce pas?
    Opening is not a problem. From the inside, the knob can be turned to retract the tongue (to open or close). From the outside, turning the key will do the same. It's pushing it closed from the outside that's the problem. Maybe this will explain better, showing the closing of an outward-swinging door (top) and the "orthodox" inward-swinging door (bottom).
    Attached Images Attached Images

  4. #4
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    10,550
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMiller View Post
    Opening is not a problem...
    If you succeed then you will find that opening really isn't a problem, for you or a burglar, since a simple push will be all that is needed to open the "locked" door.

  5. #5
    Plutonium Lounger Leif's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    U.K.
    Posts
    14,010
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by StuartR View Post
    If you succeed then you will find that opening really isn't a problem, for you or a burglar, since a simple push will be all that is needed to open the "locked" door.
    That's what I've been trying to tell him... but does he listen....?

    [attachment=87029:x.gif]
    Attached Images Attached Images
    • File Type: gif x.gif (1.4 KB, 18 views)

  6. #6
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by StuartR View Post
    If you succeed then you will find that opening really isn't a problem, for you or a burglar, since a simple push will be all that is needed to open the "locked" door.
    I should have explained the details of the lock. The tongue/bolt can sit in one of two positions, as shown. When engaged in the strike (i.e. when the door is closed) it comes much further out and is also locked in that position, requiring actual turning from within the lock mechanism to slide it back in. It can't be moved from outside the lock body. Believe me, they are a burglar's nightmare!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Leif View Post
    That's what I've been trying to tell him... but does he listen....?
    In a land such as yours, free of the undesirable criminal element, simplistic locks like that may suffice. You seem to forget that you shipped all your problems over here and now it's us that have to keep your lot out!

    Alan

  8. #8
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    10,550
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    It's a very long time since we shipped you a boatload of convicts.

  9. #9
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by StuartR View Post
    It's a very long time since we shipped you a boatload of convicts.
    Does this mean we're overdue?

    Alan

  10. #10
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Note the two pin positions at the back of the tongue, in the door-open position (right) and the door-closed position (left). The funny looking plate above the tongue is pushed in up to its angled facet, just to give an idea of the gap between the door and the jamb, when closed. I'm starting to think about a guide attached to the jamb, for the tongue to track along before it gets captured in the strike.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #11
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    A Magic Forest in Deepest, Darkest Kent
    Posts
    5,681
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Here is my little idea but you need a humungous anglegrinder
    Jerry

  12. #12
    Plutonium Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    10,550
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
    I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but...

    When I needed to buy a secure nightlatch for an inward opening door I spoke to a locksmith, who persuaded me to buy a lock that was designed to be used this way. This lock was NOT as secure as my main front door lock, but it did meet BS3621:2007 (not the best of links but you have to pay to buy a copy of the standard).

  13. #13
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by StuartR View Post
    I know this isn't the answer you want to hear, but...

    When I needed to buy a secure nightlatch for an inward opening door I spoke to a locksmith, who persuaded me to buy a lock that was designed to be used this way. This lock was NOT as secure as my main front door lock, but it did meet BS3621:2007 (not the best of links but you have to pay to buy a copy of the standard).
    This lock I have is actually recommended as a highly secure solution - for instance, insurance companies often discount their policies if theses are fitted to all house doors. You'll probably laugh when I tell you that this whole conundrum relates to the back door of my garage. Mind you, if I were a burglar who'd cased the joint, the garage is where I'd hit first up - I'd hate to think of the Ks of $s worth of stuff in there. I believe there is an outward opening model, but they're like hens teeth to find and soooooo expensive (a "special" item I suppose).

    The other aspect to this is my natural pig-headed determination when annoying little things like the laws of physics get in the way of what I'm wanting to achieve.

    Alan

  14. #14
    Platinum Lounger
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    5,016
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jezza View Post
    Here is my little idea but you need a humungous anglegrinder
    Not sure how Jezza, but this has inspired another idea (shown in principle only) which I think may be doable within the flexibilities I have.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  15. #15
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Barcelona, Spain
    Posts
    10
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    OK, I'll bite.

    Why did nobody tell him to simply turn over the tongue? No special tools needed, a saw blade is enough.

    --
    /\
    \7erard

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •