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  1. #1
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    First I have a general query about possible conflicts. I uninstalled both 3rd party firewall and AV (since they point-blank refused to load at startup). I have disabled VTTimer monitoring from Spybot S&D but still run AnVir Task Manager. I haven't touched the installed MS stuff listed below:
    Code:
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Agnitum Outpost Firewall Pro
    Version             : 4.0
    Company             : Agnitum, Ltd.
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : AnVir Task Manager
    Version             : 6.2.0
    Company             : AnVir Software
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : avast! Antivirus
    Version             : 4.8
    Company             : Alwil Software
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Microsoft Antimalware
    Version             : 2.0.6212.2
    Company             : Microsoft Corporation
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Microsoft Choice Guard
    Version             : 2.0.48.0
    Company             : Microsoft Corporation
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Microsoft Security Essentials
    Version             : 1.0.1611.0
    Company             : Microsoft Corporation
    Description         : Microsoft Security Essentials User Interface
    ==================================================
    So the first query is can anybody see any potential "conflicts of interest" that might cause degraded performance?

    Second query - my firewall did a good job monitoring outbound connections from applications, allowing me to block or permit or set specific rules. I presume MSSE has no such ability. Any suggestions as to how to achieve this filtering capability for outbound traffic, without fighting with MSSE monitoring of inbound stuff. I've yet to discover an "outbound only" firewall style of application.

    thanks
    Alan

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    Microsoft Security Essentials is not a firewall. It is an antimalware solution that provides a/v and anti-spyware protection. If you have Windows Defender installed when you install MSE, Defender will be disabled. Since MSE provides realtime scanning any other solution on your system that provides realtime scanning for malware has the potential to conflict with MSE.

    Whether or not you have outbound firewall capabilities in Windows depends on the Windows version you have. Any Windows OS from Vista onward has outbound firewall filtering. You have to dig a bit to find it. Look for "Windows Firewall with Advanced Security" for the UI to configure outbound rules. It is not anywhere near as easy as with other third party firewalls.

    Joe
    Joe

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMiller View Post
    First I have a general query about possible conflicts. I uninstalled both 3rd party firewall and AV (since they point-blank refused to load at startup). I have disabled VTTimer monitoring from Spybot S&D but still run AnVir Task Manager. I haven't touched the installed MS stuff listed below:
    Code:
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Agnitum Outpost Firewall Pro
    Version     		: 4.0
    Company     		: Agnitum, Ltd.
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : avast! Antivirus
    Version     		: 4.8
    Company     		: Alwil Software
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Microsoft Antimalware
    Version     		: 2.0.6212.2
    Company     		: Microsoft Corporation
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Microsoft Choice Guard
    Version     		: 2.0.48.0
    Company     		: Microsoft Corporation
    ==================================================
    
    ==================================================
    Product Name        : Microsoft Security Essentials
    Version     		: 1.0.1611.0
    Company     		: Microsoft Corporation
    Description 		: Microsoft Security Essentials User Interface
    ==================================================
    So the first query is can anybody see any potential "conflicts of interest" that might cause degraded performance?

    thanks
    Alan
    You appear to have 2 AV programs in real time and at least 2 Malware apps in real time. My suggestion would be to dump Avast and go with MSE.

    You also appear to have a second Anti Malwear from MS. Since MSE includes real time scanning for both AV and AM, disable MS Antimalware.

    Since you do not specifically mention what version of windows you have as your OS, it's difficult to comment on the 3rd party Firewall you are using. Vista and Win 7 both have 2 way firewalls as stated above.

    I am not familiar with Choice Guard so I cannot comment on that.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    You appear to have 2 AV programs in real time and at least 2 Malware apps in real time. My suggestion would be to dump Avast and go with MSE.
    As stated, "I uninstalled both 3rd party firewall and AV (since they point-blank refused to load at startup). " - that should read, "since they point-blank refused to stop loading at startup" - so AVast is not an issue.

    [quote name='and']
    You also appear to have a second Anti Malwear from MS. Since MSE includes real time scanning for both AV and AM, disable MS Antimalware.[/quote]This was partly where my query stems from. What exactly does Security Essentials disable itself (like Windows Defender) and what will it fight with? It's not made at all clear how this whole show comes together.

    [quote name='and']Since you do not specifically mention what version of windows you have as your OS, it's difficult to comment on the 3rd party Firewall you are using. Vista and Win 7 both have 2 way firewalls as stated above.[/quote]XP Pro SP3 - so I don't get any outbound control from the windows firewall, as I get from my proprietary one.

    [quote name='and']I am not familiar with Choice Guard so I cannot comment on that.[/quote]It's part of Windows Live OneCare - "Windows Live OneCare currently features an integrated anti-virus, firewall, backup and restore utility, and a tune-up utility with the integrated functionality of Windows Defender for malware protection." The profusion of MS bits & pieces is the real headache here - what likes, what fights? Anyway, I've scrubbed out everything and started a security rebuild from ground zero.

    thanks
    Alan

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
    Microsoft Security Essentials is not a firewall. It is an antimalware solution that provides a/v and anti-spyware protection. If you have Windows Defender installed when you install MSE, Defender will be disabled. Since MSE provides realtime scanning any other solution on your system that provides realtime scanning for malware has the potential to conflict with MSE.

    Whether or not you have outbound firewall capabilities in Windows depends on the Windows version you have. Any Windows OS from Vista onward has outbound firewall filtering. You have to dig a bit to find it. Look for "Windows Firewall with Advanced Security" for the UI to configure outbound rules. It is not anywhere near as easy as with other third party firewalls.

    Joe
    When Einstein published his theory of relativity, some said there were probably only about a dozen people on the planet who understood it. You seem to be in a similar elite group re: MS Security Essentials.

    I think I have this mess mostly sorted now, but since I have XP Pro, with no outbound firewall rules capability, would I be advised to just reinstall my old firewall on top as it was, remove or leave the Windows firewall, what arrangement would be best?

    thanks
    Alan

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMiller View Post
    This was partly where my query stems from. What exactly does Security Essentials disable itself (like Windows Defender) and what will it fight with? It's not made at all clear how this whole show comes together.
    You may find some answers at Microsoft Security Essentials: Getting Started and Upgrading Forum and the other forums there.

    Joe
    Joe

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMiller View Post
    First I have a general query about possible conflicts. I uninstalled both 3rd party firewall and AV (since they point-blank refused to load at startup). I have disabled VTTimer monitoring from Spybot S&D but still run AnVir Task Manager. I haven't touched the installed MS stuff listed below:

    ...snip...

    So the first query is can anybody see any potential "conflicts of interest" that might cause degraded performance?

    Second query - my firewall did a good job monitoring outbound connections from applications, allowing me to block or permit or set specific rules. I presume MSSE has no such ability. Any suggestions as to how to achieve this filtering capability for outbound traffic, without fighting with MSSE monitoring of inbound stuff. I've yet to discover an "outbound only" firewall style of application.

    thanks
    Alan
    I'm not sure whether it will help you Alan but here's my MSE story;
    I had used AVG for some time but had started to become concerned about the resources it used and annoyed at the popups advertising the latest version. So I decided to give MSE a spin.

    My first problem was in getting it to install. Trolling the help forums I found that you needed to have uninstalled other secruity programs for MSE to install. But I had uninstalled AVG??? After much shagging around I found that an earlier MS antivirus program was the problem!!!! Strike one. While I can understand that a company can't be expected to know about and uninstall another company's product you think MS could manage to sort out their own products.

    Once installed I started to run into problems with resources on startup. The MSMPENG process was sucking up to 100% of the CPU cycles. Turning to the 'Net I found it was a not unusual problem. The first advice from the MS techies was to remove any other security programmes. So I did thatóremoving Spybot (I had already turned off the "live" aspect of it) and some other on-demand utilities.

    Still no joy. The next piece of advice was to add the MSMPENG executable to the MSE "ignore" list. Strike two. If MS can't engineer against some kind of recursion how can they find malware?

    This didn't work either and the next piece of advice was to turn off everything in your startup and then turn them on progressively until the conflict was found. "Bu^H^H Toyota that for a game of soldiers" thought I. I have now uninstalled MSE and installed the anitvirus component of my Comodo firewall.

    I've just done this today so I'll have to wait and see how it pans out. (It seems to have found a half dozen nasties that I suspect are false positives which I've submitted to Comodo for analysis).

    Cheers
    Keith
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  8. #8
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    By the way MS Live One Care is no longer available and is being discontinued. I would suspect support is soon to follow.

    MSE disables Windows Defender since it does have real time AM as well as AV scanning and can scan your system when you choose as most good AV or AM apps do. I do not believe MSE disables any other apps.

    It was somewhat unclear which of the listed apps had been uninstalled because of your statement " I haven't touched the installed MS stuff listed below:" I seem to have misinterpreted what you meant.
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  9. #9
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    Hi Alan :

    Since it appears you had Windows Live One Care "active" on your
    computer, I am NOT surprised that Avast would not load/startup
    on your computer ; most, if not all, antivirus programs will not
    function properly IF they detect any portion of another AV on the
    computer . So as someone else recommended, would be wise to
    completely remove everything of "Windows Live One Care" from
    your computer ; do NOT know IF they have a "Removal Tool/
    Uninstall App" like many of the antivirus programs !?

    When it comes to choosing between MSE and Avast, my choice
    would be Avast . The following is the latest ( Nov 09 ) Results in
    the "Retrospective/Proactive" ( the degree of effectiveness of keeping
    malware OFF a computer ) testing done by the Independent
    Researchers at www.av-comparatives.org :

    Avast - 53% and an Advanced Plus Certification level
    MSE - 56% and an Advanced Plus Certification level .

    For a 3% difference, I would value the excellent Avast Online Support
    Forums as compared to the dismal MSE Online Support Forums as
    much greater than 3% .
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  10. #10
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Taylor View Post
    When it comes to choosing between MSE and Avast, my choice
    would be Avast . The following is the latest ( Nov 09 ) Results in
    the "Retrospective/Proactive" ( the degree of effectiveness of keeping
    malware OFF a computer ) testing done by the Independent
    Researchers at www.av-comparatives.org :

    Avast - 53% and an Advanced Plus Certification level
    MSE - 56% and an Advanced Plus Certification level .

    For a 3% difference, I would value the excellent Avast Online Support
    Forums as compared to the dismal MSE Online Support Forums as
    much greater than 3% .

    You are forgeting that in addition to AV, MSE has real time AM scanner as well. I do not believe Avast does, unless their latest version it has been added. I have not used Avast for several months. Avast seemed to be rather pushy in attempting to push their paid version onto you desktop with pop ups. This discouraged me with Avast. I'm sorry, but apps that are free should be free and not continue to bombard with adds for their paid versions.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin Taylor View Post
    Hi Alan :

    Since it appears you had Windows Live One Care "active" on your
    computer, I am NOT surprised that Avast would not load/startup
    on your computer ; most, if not all, antivirus programs will not
    function properly IF they detect any portion of another AV on the
    computer .
    My initial wording of this situation was in error. I corrected it in post #4:
    "As stated, "I uninstalled both 3rd party firewall and AV (since they point-blank refused to load at startup). " - that should read, "since they point-blank refused to stop loading at startup" - so AVast was not an issue"

    ... once I'd beaten the stubbornness out of it .In other words, I had to uninstall and completely remove all vestiges of AVast in safe mode, in order to prevent it trying to load at startup - no other method would stop its attempts.

    So as someone else recommended, would be wise to completely remove everything of "Windows Live One Care" from
    your computer ; do NOT know IF they have a "Removal Tool/ Uninstall App" like many of the antivirus programs !?
    I was able to clean out the legacy junk no problem.

    When it comes to choosing between MSE and Avast, my choice would be Avast .
    I'm really testing out MSE as a potential "all round" solution. Once I'd got over the conflict situation, performance has possibly improved slightly over what I had. I'll run with it for a while.

    thanks
    Alan

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi Keith View Post
    I'm not sure whether it will help you Alan but here's my MSE story;
    ......
    Keith

    My saga is pretty much the same as yours. Things are now purring though and I believe, performing better than with Avast and the other gear I've had. Time will tell.


    Alan

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