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  1. #1
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    I just switched to Win7 from Win98SE and, in the process, switched to Firefox from IE. I like a lot of things about FF, but I am totally nonplused about how it shows many web pages, compared to IE8. Can anyone explain why FF won't show pages properly (as intended by the writer)?

    Here are just two examples:
    A credit union main page, that is just totally hosed up - Credit union link
    A tennis tournament draw that is almost unusable - tennis draw chart
    In comparison, on those two pages, FF is a joke.

    Does a web page designer/coder have to choose one browser or another, and forget all the other's users? I'm using FF 3.5.7. Surely, there's not some "add-on" just to make HTML show correctly. I'm not using but a couple of add-ons. I'm tempted to go back to IE8.

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    I have no problem viewing either of those web sites in FF V3.5.7.
    You are correct that pages are rendered differently. This is due mainly to Microsoft not sticking to the HTML standard in their browsers and web developers not testing in other browsers, and the use of ActiveX in IE.

    cheers, Paul

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    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    Firefox 3.6, Windows XP Pro SP3. NoScript (Firefox) plug-in. I see no problems with those pages rendering badly, but they will look different in IE8. Just upgrading to Windows 7 and IE8 or Firefox will make things look and behave differently from IE in Windows 98SE, as the new browser versions do not work with the older Windows version. Visually, the changes can be quite startling, even in IE8 vs. older IE versions.

    The main question is, are any site features or (at the Credit Union site) security features (log ins, etc.) not working at all with Firefox, and yet they work just fine in IE? If all the features of a site are working, the rendering may be something you can just get used to. Or, take the risk of using IE8 or the Firefox IE Tab plug-in to view these pages.

    Whatever you do, keep your security and Windows Updates up to date. And keep Flash Player updated. (Flash isn't used just for You-Tube videos.) Windows 7 is targeted by hackers far more often than Windows 98 these days.
    -- Bob Primak --

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    Bronze Lounger IanWilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    I just switched to Win7 from Win98SE and, in the process, switched to Firefox from IE.**I like a lot of things about FF, but I am totally nonplused about how it shows many web pages, compared to IE8.**Can anyone explain why FF won't show pages properly (as intended by the writer)?**

    Here are just two examples:
    A credit union main page, that is just totally hosed up - Credit union link
    A tennis tournament draw that is almost unusable -**tennis draw chart
    In comparison, on those two pages, FF is a joke.
    **
    Does a web page designer/coder have to choose one browser or another, and forget all the other's users?**I'm using FF 3.5.7.** Surely, there's not some "add-on" just to make HTML show correctly. I'm not using but a couple of add-ons. I'm tempted to go back to IE8.
    Hi Wayne

    I have looked at both your links in IE8, Firefox 3.5.7 and Opera 10.10 and both of them look OK (and pretty much the same) in all three browsers.


    Ian


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    Quote Originally Posted by IanWilson View Post
    Hi Wayne

    I have looked at both your links in IE8, Firefox 3.5.7 and Opera 10.10 and both of them look OK (and pretty much the same) in all three browsers.


    Ian
    Really?!! Well, that is very interesting. If you were seeing the same results that I get when comparing those two pages in FF vs IE8, it would be obvious that they were different. The lines drawn on the tennis draw don't match up with the names on the left, growing more out of sync toward the bottom of the page. But, the biggest difference is on the first example - the credit union page. There is text on top of other text (which I see on many different sites), and a large banner is moved to the bottom of the page, instead of to the right side (window size makes no difference). I'll post some screen prints, if I can. I'd really like to fix this! I found plug-ins that I didn't know I had, after starting this thread; maybe one of them is the culprit. I don't remember what financial page it was, but one site didn't provide a place for entry of a dollar amount, so I had to use IE8.

    The banner at the top of the page is very much the same on FF and IE8. The following are the next part of the page on each:
    [attachment=88080:FF-CUpage.jpg]

    [attachment=88081:IE8-CUpage.jpg]
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    I tried Safe mode, and it made no difference to the FF rendering of the CU page. Could one of these "plug-ins" make a difference; they should be the latest versions, since I've had Win 7 for only 2 months. Safe mode disabled the "add-ons", but I'm assuming that the "plug-ins" are still in effect - right?

    [attachment=88082lugins.jpg]
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Bronze Lounger IanWilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    I tried Safe mode, and it made no difference to the FF rendering of the CU page.**Could one of these "plug-ins" make a difference; they should be the latest versions, since I've had Win 7 for only 2 months.**Safe mode disabled the "add-ons", but I'm assuming that the "plug-ins" are still in effect - right?

    [attachment=88082lugins.jpg]
    I don't know, Wayne, but it could be an idea to disable them one by one and see if it makes any difference.


    Ian


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    Yes, I guess that's what I'll have to do...or, maybe update to version 3.6 to see if that changes anything. But, some things I read (that I can't recall now) made me a bit leery of doing that. Thanks for the suggestions.

    EDIT: Well, I just disabled all extensions, and all add-ons, one at a time, and none of them made any difference at all, on the CU page. So, I'm guessing it has to do with either version 3.5.7, or my screen resolution (1920 x 1080), since the first row of tabs on that page don't fit and put the last 'box' onto the second line.

    I think the reason for not going to 3.6 was what I read about troubles with themes/personas, but I don't use themes, so I'll go to 3.6 and see if that works better.

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    Is it Norton? I see it's in both browsers but it may upset FF.

    cheers, Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by P T View Post
    Is it Norton? I see it's in both browsers but it may upset FF.

    cheers, Paul
    I don't think so, Paul. I ran in Safe mode without ANY of the extensions, or plug-ins enabled. No change.
    Now, I've installed FF 3.6 - no change!!! I have yet to try Safe mode in 3.6, but I really doubt that will do anything to this page. I've read in blogs, etc, where others say that FF has trouble rendering some pages. So, are you guys sure that you're not just yanking my chain when you say this page displays correctly for you? I'd sure like to see a screen print image...especially if someone has Norton.

    Guess I'll go play with Safe Mode, again...

    EDIT: By the way, PT, Norton IPS 2.0 is incompatible with 3.6, and I disabled the Norton Toolbar 4.5, just now, and so neither is running. No change.

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    SOLVED!!!

    I'm old and don't like very small print, so I had messed with the "minimum font size". To my surprise, I found the solution in one of the Help articles in Firefox, under "Web sites look wrong".

    Minimum font size set

    Some sites do not display properly with a minimum font size. To reset the minimum font size:

    1. At the top of the Firefox window On the menu bar, click on the Tools Firefox Edit menu, and select Options...Preferences....
    2. Click to select the Content panel.
    3. In the Fonts & Colors section, click Advanced....
    4. Change the Minimum font size to None.

    Both of my example pages are now perfectly rendered, and I'm sure a lot of others, on which I've noticed small errors, will also be "fixed". I'm a happy camper, now!

    Thanks, again, to all who replied.

  12. #12
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    Just an afterthought here - some sites actually looked better when I had a minimum font size of 16. They all work correctly, now, but when I resize the whole page on some sites, some of the fonts are too small. Not so bad now that I would go back to that, but if I could have that option "per site", that would be ideal.

  13. #13
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Just an afterthought here - some sites actually looked better when I had a minimum font size of 16. They all work correctly, now, but when I resize the whole page on some sites, some of the fonts are too small. Not so bad now that I would go back to that, but if I could have that option "per site", that would be ideal.
    From Firefox Extensions downloads (Get Add ons), try Default Zoom Level. This Extension allows me to adjust the default zoom level for text, images or both, per site, and have Firefox remember these settings, even when I Clear History. My eyes aren't all that old, but even the Windows Secrets Newsletter web page looks best to me if I set the text zoom level at 120%. My Firefox can then remember that setting.

    As for text appearing on top of other text, this has to do with using a universal zoom function, which does not respect the Page Width when zooming. The Firefox Extension I suggest automatically adjusts for Page Width, thus avoiding these types of issues on most web pages. IE (7 or 8) automatically does this adjustment when zooming.
    -- Bob Primak --

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    Thanks, Bob. I might try that add-on sometime. I'm pretty satisfied with the way most screens look, now. Mostly, it's the relative sizes of different types of text that I object to, on some sites. i.e. Zooming to make one part look good to me, makes another part too small, or too large. Some sites looked better on my old monitor, so I don't think most sites are designed with 1920x1080 in mind.

    I think I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment re "universal zoom"; I have no problem with any site I've used lately in FF, since changing the minimum text size to 'none'. Zooming the whole screen seems to take into account the page size, and wraps the text and photos properly - at least on sites I use. I never see text-on-text, now. The reason that credit union site looked bad is that if certain text is restricted to no smaller than 16, then there's no way to fit everything on the screen as intended.

  15. #15
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    I think I have to respectfully disagree with your assessment re "universal zoom"; I have no problem with any site I've used lately in FF, since changing the minimum text size to 'none'. Zooming the whole screen seems to take into account the page size, and wraps the text and photos properly - at least on sites I use. I never see text-on-text, now. The reason that credit union site looked bad is that if certain text is restricted to no smaller than 16, then there's no way to fit everything on the screen as intended.

    If that works for you, go for it. But I have had problems when zooming entire pages using universal zooming. That's why I use the Extension. I'm glad you have not had these problems. The minimum text size issue seems to resolved, in any event. And with it, the page rendering issue seems to be resolved as well. I think this is what we were aiming at here.
    -- Bob Primak --

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