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  1. #1
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    I posted the following message at the 'gettsatisfactions.com/mozilla_messing' over a month ago but have received no response. I'm hoping someone here might have some insight on an answer. I'm using Thunderbird 3 on Win7 x64. Many of the emails I receive have been forwarded several times. When I forward them, the message becomes surrounded by 1 or more nested tables. Some of which have empty lines, text or graphics. Some can be eliminated by clicking on the circled x and deleting the useless table/cell. However, most can't be deleted and the message remains in many nested tables.
    Does anyone know how to get rid of all the extra outer tables? In MS Word 2007 I can merge cells or tables. Is there a way to do something like that?.

  2. #2
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    Thunderbird 3.0? My advice is to revert to Thunderbird 2.0
    Ver. 3.0 is fraught with so many problems it is not ready for prime time.
    Give it more time, but right now save yourself some stress.
    Download Ver. 2.0 and install to a new folder, do not delete Ver 3.0. as you may lose your current settings and mail.
    Ver. 2.0 will carry on seamlessly.
    I retry Ver.3 every two months or so, very trying.

    http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-U...rbird/all.html

  3. #3
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    I totally concur with Ronald's conclusion.
    The latest 2.x version is 2.0.0.23. You get it among others from here.
    I like Filehippo because it has old versions AND is fast, much faster than Mozilla's download page.
    Eike J Heinze
    What I am about
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  4. #4
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    I have discovered the best way to forward Thunderbird e-mails is to hit 'reply', then correct the addresses as required and clean up the message as required. It maintains the original message intact.

  5. #5
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    Using 3.02 on a Mac without problems. It is different than 2.x, not doubt. I like it better - it syncs well with gcal. At last, mail and calendar together.

  6. #6
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    When I went from XP OE to Win7 I converted to Thunderbird 2.x and used it a few weeks before 3.x came out and then took the upgrade. Overall 3.x has worked well for me. But, not much experience with Thunderbird. I think I remember that 2.x also had the exact feature/problem with tables? That didn't change in 3.x? Actually, I believe OE express had the same problem except that I never found a way to see the table/cell borders in OE unless the message was into Word. At least Thunderbird shows you the table/cell borders just I see no way to merge cells.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Knight View Post
    <snip> I think I remember that [Thunderbird] 2.x also had the exact feature/problem with tables? That didn't change in 3.x? <snip>
    You're right. This stupid "feature" of Thunderbird is enough to drive one mad! Every so often there is a graphic or other some such invisible item in the selected material that will not allow the message to be forwarded or replied to. Then I have to hunt for it on a hit-and-miss basis until I find it, or give up. (One workaround I have found that works is to copy/paste the message from Thunderbird into Notepad, then copy/paste everything from there into the forwarded or replied-to message. This cleans or "washes" out the offending items.) Also, I reverted to version 2 because version 3 comes with a "dumbed-down" set of toolbars. And don't knock OE6. It may be antiquated and prone to garbling its database, but it's very simple and straightforward to use.
    Why can't Mozilla get it right and leave a good thing alone (i.e., v2 vs. v3) and provide useful, responsive Help? Their inbuilt and online help is like Microsoft's: it answers simple, obvious "newbie" questions in a very childlike manner and completely ignores or overlooks the real problems that people are having. It then simple-mindedly refers you to the Help groups. What an unhelpful sham!

  8. #8
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    This nesting is nothing new. I have seen it and used it in Ver. 2. It is actually helpful if you want to clean up an email before sending it along. It identifies all the hidden blocks that you do not see in regular view. If you want to de-nest a portion, just select it and use the "Outdent" icon to take it down one level.

    As suggested earlier, you can just copy the body of an email you are reading and past it into a "new" email. Sometimes, depending on the source of the images, the images themselves will not come over, just the place holders for the images. If you do not want the pictures and text formatting, choose "Paste without formatting" to get all the text pasted in your default format.

    I find it a lot easier to clean up an email in Thunderbird than Outlook or Outlook Express (or Windows Mail).

    My pet peeve with Thunderbird 3 is sometimes when I delete a message I am reading it does not open the next available message. I have to then click on the message I want to read. Other than that it works just fine.

    Tom

  9. #9
    New Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank14612 View Post
    You're right. This stupid "feature" of Thunderbird is enough to drive one mad! Every so often there is a graphic or other some such invisible item in the selected material that will not allow the message to be forwarded or replied to. Then I have to hunt for it on a hit-and-miss basis until I find it, or give up. (One workaround I have found that works is to copy/paste the message from Thunderbird into Notepad, then copy/paste everything from there into the forwarded or replied-to message. This cleans or "washes" out the offending items.) Also, I reverted to version 2 because version 3 comes with a "dumbed-down" set of toolbars. And don't knock OE6. It may be antiquated and prone to garbling its database, but it's very simple and straightforward to use.
    Why can't Mozilla get it right and leave a good thing alone (i.e., v2 vs. v3) and provide useful, responsive Help? Their inbuilt and online help is like Microsoft's: it answers simple, obvious "newbie" questions in a very childlike manner and completely ignores or overlooks the real problems that people are having. It then simple-mindedly refers you to the Help groups. What an unhelpful sham!
    I have found the Thunderbird support community to be quite knowledgeable and responsive, not unlike this one. The developers monitor it, add helpful suggestions, and take valid criticism to heart. It's also search-able like a good FAQ file ought to be. Since Thunderbird is a free, community supported application, I'd say it's a mischaracterization to call its support a "sham".

    As to Thunderbird 3, yes, it's an ambitious upgrade and a little wet behind the ears in places. However, I've yet to find an IMAP client that is its equal. If you're having specific issues with the HTML editor, which I agree is fairly weak, give the support community a try at http://getsatisfaction.com/mozilla_messaging and let us know how it goes.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Assousa View Post
    I have found the Thunderbird support community to be quite knowledgeable and responsive, not unlike this one. The developers monitor it, add helpful suggestions, and take valid criticism to heart. It's also search-able like a good FAQ file ought to be. Since Thunderbird is a free, community supported application, I'd say it's a mischaracterization to call its support a "sham".

    As to Thunderbird 3, yes, it's an ambitious upgrade and a little wet behind the ears in places.
    My apology for calling it a sham, since I haven't explored the Mozilla community itself. However, I have explored Google and Bing on many Thunderbird and Firefox topics, for example Firefox's continuous reloading of pages, and I have not found anything I could call helpful or definitive. (And of course I would expect that my searches would have found all relevant hits from the FF and TB communities.) This is what I based my remark on. I found just the usual "Did you disable cookies? Did you check for viruses? Try safe mode? My grandmother had that once and she reformatted her hard drive." suspects, and then the discontinuation of the thread with a hearty feeling of well-done.
    As for TB 3, why did they "fix" TB 2, which wasn't broke? They keep adding "whizz-bang" features to FF and TB and breaking things that worked fine before, but overlooking things that (IMO) really need to be fixed, like memory leakage and slow loading, etc. In FF I'm depending heavily on add-ons such as Fasterfox, Greasemonkey, Memoryfox, Refreshblocker and Vacuumplaces as boosters and fixes, when these should be incorporated in the program itself.
    Sorry for the rant.

    Frank D

  11. #11
    New Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Knight View Post
    I posted the following message at the 'gettsatisfactions.com/mozilla_messing' over a month ago but have received no response. I'm hoping someone here might have some insight on an answer. I'm using Thunderbird 3 on Win7 x64. Many of the emails I receive have been forwarded several times. When I forward them, the message becomes surrounded by 1 or more nested tables. Some of which have empty lines, text or graphics. Some can be eliminated by clicking on the circled x and deleting the useless table/cell. However, most can't be deleted and the message remains in many nested tables.
    Does anyone know how to get rid of all the extra outer tables? In MS Word 2007 I can merge cells or tables. Is there a way to do something like that?.
    Just to prove someone here is trying to answer your question, not just take digs at TB, I use QuoteandComposeManager (http://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos/realborders-en.html).
    Cheers

    KeithC

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithC View Post
    Just to prove someone here is trying to answer your question, not just take digs at TB, I use QuoteandComposeManager (http://nic-nac-project.org/~kaosmos/realborders-en.html).
    I admit to being one of those taking a dig or two at TB/FF, for which I am properly ashamed. However, in this case such agitating would seem to be justified, IMO, when a third-party program (not even an add-on) must be called upon to do what should be an option of TB itself, namely, to replicate a plain text version of the original message (not a tabular format that is very difficult to edit) into the body of the reply or forwarded message.
    Please note: I don't wish to prolong this thread; I only hope to urge the developers of Thunderbird (and Firefox) to communicate and respond in a friendly and positive manner to the complaints, suggestions and pleas of the users of their superb creations.

    Frank D

    P.S., KeithC, thank you for your suggestion.

  13. #13
    4 Star Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank14612 View Post
    .... In FF I'm depending heavily on add-ons such as Fasterfox, Greasemonkey, Memoryfox, Refreshblocker and Vacuumplaces as boosters and fixes, when these should be incorporated in the program itself.
    Frank D
    In that case you want*Opera***

    Oh, and I have always found*Mozillazine to be the best place for support for TB etc
    John (Unreconstructed Jacobite)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonWallace View Post
    In that case you want Opera

    Oh, and I have always found Mozillazine to be the best place for support for TB etc
    Thank you, Jon. At your suggestion I've looked at the Opera webpages. Opera is a great browser, and if I were just starting out or FF broke for me, Opera would be the way to go. However, I'm addicted to FF's add-ons and the familiarity I have with it and them, so I'm going to stick with it for now. Opera e-mail, though, looks interesting and I'll give it a try. Also, I've looked at the Mozillazine homepage and it looks so good I'm going to subscribe to it. Thanks again!

    Frank

  15. #15
    4 Star Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank14612 View Post
    ... Opera e-mail, though, looks interesting and I'll give it a try. ....

    Frank
    I've not used the Opera email client, but I do know that user either love or hate it. I would give the forums*here a look before you commit to anything.
    John (Unreconstructed Jacobite)

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