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  1. #1
    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    Greetings, folks.

    First-time poster here, but a long-time Langa reader and "Windows Secrets" fan!

    First take a look at the screen shots if they post okay, then maybe someone can help me determine a workable approach to getting things corrected. I am presently posting from within Win7, but the first pic shows Win7's partition empty (Free) ... And in that same pic, XP's 6788 does not appear above the bar.

    In the second pic, that 99378 free is actually my "AllStors" partition where these pictures and many other things can be found, and the third pic (froma different piece of software) correctly shows things as they are other than in missing "C:" as being active.

    I think I have the software to fix things, but I do not know how to decide which button to click first.

    Any advice, experience or help here would be sincerely appreciated!

    Joseph Lee


    [attachment=88360:mbrshow1.jpg]

    [attachment=88361:mbrshow2.jpg]

    [attachment=88362artsall.jpg]
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    I've never heard of the Table Doctor, but if those pics are of the same system in the same configuration, I would quit using Table Doctor as it doesn't seem to be accurate at all.

    Based on the EaseUS partition information, I'm not sure what the problem is but a better cross-reference would be to compare and contrast with Windows Disk Management partition information (either XP or Win7. Maybe the combination of so many Primary and Logical partitions is confusing those programs? See what Disk Management thinks it sees first.

  3. #3
    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    I've never heard of the Table Doctor, but if those pics are of the same system in the same configuration, I would quit using Table Doctor as it doesn't seem to be accurate at all.
    I thank you for that comment, and for the suggestion to see what Disk Management sees. Table Doctor comes from Easus, and maybe I will just go get a refund.

    Overall, and after reading your comments, my problem might not be quite as bad as I thought.

    My 2k and XP DiskMans each show the same:

    [attachment=88363:dmxp.jpg]


    That "53.05 GB Unallocated" is actually the Win7 partition beside it, and maybe that is the only real problem I need to try to fix. Win7 went in last (just before Mint), of course, and now I have two oddities:

    1) Mint cannot see any other operating system on my machine (and that is no big deal);
    2) Win7 occasionally balks at startup, cannot fix its own startup, but always ends up starting anyway.

    Win7's DiskMan shows everything okay, but Win7 shows itself in "C:" while running. So again, maybe Win7's stand-alone handling of drive letters is a key factor here?
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    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    PS: I just noticed the drive sizes shown. Those two drives are identical 160 GB WDs, but DiskMan is showing the first one larger.

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    Ok, you got me, that's odd where apparently the last logical partition with Win7 on it is also being depicted seperately as unallocated space.

    The only thing I can think of is that the extended partition is an older FAT32 system partition and that's causing a glitch in how its depicted. However, I would also think that when you're booted into any other partition, that system's partition display would not be subject to the same glitch.

    Its normal for Win7 to show itself as C when running and H or whatever when its not so no worries there.

    Are you using GRUB maybe as your bootloader? It sounds like things aren't broken really, more like glitchy. My solution would be to make all the partitions on disk 1 primary partitions but that may be more trouble than its worth since that would require imaging the logical partitions seperately, reallocating the disk with primary parttiions, restoring the images and fix any glitches in the bootloader that might have developed from the procedure. I'd also wonder if there really is a need for all those OSs anymore; its a cool thing to do but how often are they used and is it for something that cannot be substituted for either virtually or somewhere else?

  6. #6
    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    I had gone over and posted some of this on another forum, and I think it will help explain or figure out the origin of my problem ...

    I began all of this with two raw drives, but I did not connect the second one until after the Windows systems had all been installed.

    I began by using MS FDISK to make the first partition FAT32 for Win98se, then (as best I can now recall) I used 2k's installation options to make a partition for 2k ... and I think that is where my trouble began when 2k could not see all of the 160 GB drive and somehow "marked the end" of the drive as being closer than it actually was. But after reading your post, it comes to mind that I might have brought FDISK back in around that time. Hence, yes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    The only thing I can think of is that the extended partition is an older FAT32 system partition and that's causing a glitch in how its depicted.
    After 98se and 2k were in, I used XP's installation options to make a partition for XP and all was well up to that point. But then when I tried to let Win7 make its own partition, the remainder of the drive showed as being in two pieces, with the first ending at the point I think 2k (or possibly FDISK) had earlier and erroneously marked as the end of the drive.

    At that point, neither 2k nor XP nor the Win7 installation options could make the last 53+ GBs of the drive into one partition, but Easus' "Partition Manager" had no trouble deleting the two pieces and making them into just one for Win7 ... and I then used the Win7 installation options to format that last partition before proceeding with my Win7 installation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    ... that's odd where apparently the last logical partition with Win7 on it is also being depicted seperately as unallocated space.
    That did not used to be that way, and I cannot recall when, why or how that came to be. Sometimes I mess around or try to tweek a bit too much or too often without taking notes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    I would also think that when you're booted into any other partition, that system's partition display would not be subject to the same glitch.
    Which? The one I am booted into or Win7's?

    In any case, Win7's DM shows everything being okay:

    [attachment=88366:dmw7.jpg]

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    Its normal for Win7 to show itself as C when running and H or whatever when its not so no worries there.
    Understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    Are you using GRUB maybe as your bootloader? It sounds like things aren't broken really, more like glitchy.
    No. 2k added itself and 98se together in boot.ini, then XP added itself to that, then Win7 did its own thing while adding an option pointing back to all the others. To add Mint, and that is something I actually yet need to do again after my occasional troubles with Win7's boot messed something up (see more below), I used EasyBCD after having told GRUB to simply make note of Mint only on its own partition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    My solution would be to make all the partitions on disk 1 primary partitions but that may be more trouble than its worth since that would require imaging the logical partitions seperately, reallocating the disk with primary parttiions, restoring the images and fix any glitches in the bootloader that might have developed from the procedure.
    As soon as I am sure I cannot simply fix the "shadow" issue in some other way, maybe that is what I will do. I presently have no real backup system in place, and doing as you have mentioned would be simple after attending to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    I'd also wonder if there really is a need for all those OSs anymore; its a cool thing to do but how often are they used and is it for something that cannot be substituted for either virtually or somewhere else?
    I have some stuff that only runs *best* in 98se, and 2k is my all-time favorite and the easiest for me to navigate. I need XP in order for my iPod and iTunes to communicate, and I am making an honest effort to become accustomed to Win7 even though I have yet to gain the upper hand as far as having complete control over my own machine!
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    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    Ah, and I just noticed Win7's partition shows as primary, so maybe its "shadow" is something left over from having previously been part of an extended one?

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    It does make a lot more sense now that I see what it looks like from Win7's perspective and that that last partition is a primary partition. Win7 uses a different type of bootloader than the three previous OS and has to modify accordingly and if it was a logical partition before, Win7 was not thrilled with that and made it a primary. The older OSs just can't fully understand what the newer OS (and EasyBCD) modified.

    You may be able to fix the somewhat spotty boot of Win7 by trying to modify the bootloader some more or use an all-encompassing substitute bootloader but the partition info will probably only be correctly displayed when in Win7.

  9. #9
    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byron Tarbox View Post
    You may be able to fix the somewhat spotty boot of Win7 by trying to modify the bootloader some more or use an all-encompassing substitute bootloader but the partition info will probably only be correctly displayed when in Win7.
    I am tempted to just leave it all as it is since I know better than to try to do anything in that "shadow" partition, but there is yet one more part of this I had meant to mention earlier (when I stuck "see below" in somewhere):

    I use a MiniView KVMP switch, and I have in the past been able to start or to reboot my machine into a different OS and switch away for a bit, but Mint once got hung up with nothing but a flashing cursor when I did that about a week or so ago. I think the issue there had to do with not being able to actually read my monitor, and I have since stopped switching away during startups.

    In any case: Mint would not come back up after that, and that is why I have a re-install planned. However, the next time Win7 came up after that, it "installed new devices" ... and plenty of them even though nothing had actually been added or changed! And as best I can recall without remembering any real details here, it was not long after that when I first noticed the "shadow" of Win7's partition. So overall, maybe it *would* be best for me to copy and re-do that partition as you had mentioned, and I could do that by temporarily using the area presently set aside for Mint's reinstall.

    ... and if I might presume to ask yet one more question, I have another and far bigger problem on a machine I finished up for a friend and his family just yesterday:

    I turned an XP-Home Dell 8200 into a 98-XP dual-boot, and I was done and everything was fine in a really nice system! My friends home-school their young daughter, and I have finally found a good home for some old "BookShelf" (in Office '95) and Encarta software I have had laying around for quite a while.

    About an hour before taking that machine down to their place, I decided to copy a few freebie games disks onto their drive and leave the installations for them to do later. I was in 98se, and Windows Explorer "loaded up" or whatever it sometimes does, and I could not get the last CD to copy. Prior to that, I had noticed the CD drive showing up twice in Explorer after completing a copy, and I had simply closed Explorer and started it up again to get rid of that error. But after finally finishing the copy of that last CD, the machine would not boot up again.

    Using "FDISK /MBR" from a 98se startup disk got things fixed to the point of the OS options menu coming back up, and XP now continues on and comes up just fine ... but now 98se only loads up to the point of Windows drivers being next to load, then a "sector not found on C:" error shows up.

    This afternoon I went down to my friends' place and used all of my Easus software to take a look and try to fix that, but to no avail. Even the "Table Doctor" looked good this time around and said everything is fine.

    Somehow, it seems that last disc I had copied had first tried to write something to the drive to set itself up for an installation but had failed, and then I had done whatever I did to get Explorer to "reset" and simply copy the CD to the system drive without installing anything.

    I hope all of that makes sense, and I hope you might know how to make it possible for 98se to again find whatever sector it cannot presently find in order to come up! I have done a complete scan of the 98se partition and have found nothing wrong anywhere.

    Any hope without reinstalling 98se?!

    ... and I promise: No more questions about fixing troubled systems!

  10. #10
    5 Star Lounger
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    I think you know as much or more than I do about such things. I always found pre-XP partitions/multi-boot setups to be very finicky, very specific as to what they wanted to "see" on the disk. I used to put XP and ME or 98SE on different disks altogether and then just switch the boot priority in the BIOS.

    Once I moved on I never went back so I can't be of much help there. I would have tried some of the same things you did and run scandisk from a 98 startup disc (floppy?) and then reinstall if nothing came of it.

  11. #11
    Star Lounger leejosepho's Avatar
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    I certainly thank you very much for all the insight and a great discussion! I have a nearly-identical 98se here on my own system, so I will begin looking to try to figure out exactly what my friends' system is looking for when it stalls. Logic says I only need to locate the drivers file or files and link them to whatever is calling for them. As best I can recall now, that is how things worked back in my Commodore days.

    Did you ever work with a C=64 in 8-bit at 1 mHz?! My first computer was a C=128 with a "fast mode" at 2!

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    Did you ever work with a C=64 in 8-bit at 1 mHz?! My first computer was a C=128 with a "fast mode" at 2!
    Sperry-New Holland Clone...4 mhz, 40 MB hard drive...I'm going to keep it until I can get the same amount for it as an antique as what I paid for it...could be waiting a l-o-n-g time yet!

    Good luck.

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