Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
  1. #1
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Hello all,
    Having had only one PC, and it came preloaded with Vista Home Premium (and with lots of bloatware) I now would like to try "7" (just for fun) Here's the question (s):
    1.Can you purchase the "7" OS on a disk without the bloatware, just the basic system?
    2.If you do an "upgrade" do you still get some sort of disk?
    3. Can you do an "on line " upgrade" ( plain Jane, no "bloat" system ?)
    4. What "flavors" of "7" could you recommend?
    5. Would a "big box store" be the best place to acquire this? Regards Fred
    PS please share All opinions positive or negative (i can take it)
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  2. #2
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    I'm not sure what you mean by bloatware, but yes you can purchase a Windows 7 disk either through Microsoft directly or some other legitimate online broker like Newegg. You will be able do an upgrade to W7 Home from Vista Home Premium, seeing that is what you have now. If you don't want the extras then go with the W7 Home Premium.
    Newegg has it listed for around 99 dollars right now but only 32 or 64 bit, not both for 99 dollars.

    You can also download Windows 7 from Microsoft.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  3. #3
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    254
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    Is your PC a Dell/HP system? i.e. large vendor PC

    If you answer yes to the above than I guess we could assume "bloatware" is a lot of the additional software necessary or not they like to include to make a system seem "full featured". A Microsoft Windows installation from bare bones does not include any of this Vista Home Premium included it is the vendor that adds things for the above reasons etc.

    If this is not what you mean then please correct us before we go any further.

    1. Yes
    2. Yes, retail upgrade packs include a DVD
    3. No, Online upgrade from Vista to Win 7. Only same product lines.
    4. Windows 7 Home Premium
    5. Yes

    To be honest it sounds like you need to wipe the PC and start fresh (Windows 7 suggested, Vista is subpar) and only install what you want on there not how a PC can come prepackaged as per above. I am unsure if you're willing or got the know how to do this successfully though (no offense intended) as it can be a little daunting for a first timer

  4. #4
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Fred,

    You can use the upgrade version as Vista does qualify for the upgrade. I would recommend Pro or above just to allow XP Mode if you so desire. Also the GP Editor is not available in Win 7 HP, only Pro, Enterprise or Ultimate. I have Ultimate on my laptop, my wife has HP and we have HP on our desktop. Yes when you purchase a retail copy of upgrade or full install you get 2 DVD's, one 32 Bit and one 64 Bit. You can only install one version with the supplied key, but either 32 bit or 64 Bit would be available. If your harware is 64 Bit capable, go with the 64 Bit version. I'm sure you know all the reasons. (By searching on line you may save a few bucks. If you qualify for any of the educational discounts this would be a big savings. My wife works for a university and qualifies, Win 7 Ultimate 32 Bit or 64 Bit Upgrade for $19.95. Unfortunately only one copy per customer. Otherwise any retailer would have the MS dvd's. All OEM PC manufacturers have their own branded versions with all the "bloatware".)

    Any MS version of Win 7 will not have all the bloatware that OEM Manufacturers seem to not be able to resist. Obviously you can choose which windows extras you keep by going to Control Panel/Programs and Features, Turn Windows features on or off.

    I think you are the type that likes to upgrade rather than clean install. Might I recommend a Custom install. Insert the DVD in your optical drive, reboot and choose boot from DVD, work through the day/time stuff, then choose custom install. This will install Win 7 while maintaining your old OS in a folder in your root drive called windows.old. You will be able to open this folder just like all other folders and drag anything you want to keep (documents, pictures, favorites, contacts, etc) to the appropriate areas of Win 7. From start to finish took just 2 or 3 hours with a few more looking through How to Geek to customize the way I want it.

    Going this route you would have to reinstall your apps, but I think you are the type to enjoy doing this type of work. I know I do. Have fun.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  5. #5
    Silver Lounger t8ntlikly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    2,162
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
    I did a "Clean Install" when Microsoft held their "Load Fest" here in Portland. My laptop is an HP dv5000 US that was running Windows XP Pro Sp3. The only problem I ran into was that HP had no driver support for Windows 7 for my laptop, so to get around that problem I downloaded and installed all available Vista drivers that I needed. That was a little risky, but it worked quite well.
    I don't remember the name of the program that I used to move my apps over, but even that was for the most part successful. The only app that I ended up re-installing was Microsoft MapPoint, and some really old (circa Windows95) games. < those run beautifully TYVM!
    The best part is no bloat ware as you call it, and the only program that I had to upgrade was Adobe Acrobat Pro. My version 7 did not play well with Windows 7.
    If you choose to do a clean install, my advice would be to check to make sure that you have the latest drivers downloaded and nearby in case you need them even though you are running Vista. My brother didn't do this after I told him repeatedly to error on the side of caution and do so and he had a mess.
    Just my .02 cents worth. Do a clean install. If you really want some of the bloat ware that came with your PC, you can always re install it from either the recovery CD's that came with your PC, or from the recovery partition should you leave that in place.
    Thanks John
    Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at. (Murphy's War Laws #39)

  6. #6
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,592
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,059 Times in 928 Posts
    Frist run Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor. That will tell you if there are any obvious problems in upgrading.

    Second, make sure that there are Windows 7 drivers available for all your hardware. If Windows 7 drivers are not available get Windows Vista drivers. Most of them will work.

    Third, if you decide to go to 64-bit Windows 7 make sure you have 64-bit drivers. 32-bit drivers will NOT work. Since you are running 32-bit Vista if you decide to install 64-bit Windows 7 it must be a clean install you can't upgrade. However, you can still use the upgrade media to perform the clean install.

    Fourth, since you have an OEM copy of Vista when you install Windows 7 the new OS takes over the license for Windows. Therefore, you can NOT legally run a dual boot system with Vista & Windows 7.

    Fifth, each Windows 7 DVD comes with all the software on it for all versions. Your key determines what gets installed.

    Joe
    Joe

  7. #7
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Hello,
    Thank you for your responses. I will try to answer .
    Clint, My definition of "bloatware" is going to differ with most . As Josh B puts it it is all of the "OEM" stuff Snapfish , Vonage, AOL stuff, etc. My definition is... it is anything that i don't want on the "PC" (including OS things ex, Windows mail, Defender , IE, etc.Will give the "vendors" (all the usual suspects) a look see .... thanks

    Josh B .... you hit it right on the head about the bloatware. Question : As i have no experience with any other OS (Vista) i really don't have anyway to understand the "sub par" comment. I have three "Vista's" SP-0 no updates or patches, SP-1, and SP-2 (all updates) and a Linux "Distro" (quad boot ) Could you explain when comparing "Vista " to "7" Is it better overall, or faster ...or better in the installed stuff? As far as a clean install .... I'm thinking that i would install "7" and add it to my "boot Que" (what comes after quad boot ?) on another drive or partition not sure if i can stuff 5 HD's in my tower. I am not willing to give Vista the heave ho ...it's too much fun fooling with.

    Ted... Hello i have a "zillion " questions (from your post), but i will stick to the topic "GP" editor ? and "XP Mode" could you explain.(remember my only one working brain cell) You mention 64 bit ... do you know if you can "dual boot " 32 bit and 64 bit systems (different HD's) same machine ? Do you know of a chart or comparison for home / Pro / and whatever else they offer? Yes definitely a disk... Thanks for the links

    t8ntlikly, Hello.. nope ...don't want any "bloatware" took me three years of fooling with Vista to figure out how to rid myself of it ! Regarding a "clean install" I can do this in a multi boot system ...correct ? (separate HD or partition) No recovery partition just as soon as have a disk on hand.

    Thanks to "Ya-All" Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  8. #8
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Group Policy (GP) Editor: A Google Search of win 7 group policy editor gives loads of information. An explanation of GP Editor from the Win 7 forums:

    The Local Group Policy Editor is a Microsoft Management Console (MMC) snap-in that provides a single user interface through which all the Computer Configuration and User Configuration settings of Local Group Policy objects can be managed for your computer.
    • Computer Configuration
      Administrators can use Computer Configuration to set policies that are applied to computer, regardless of who logs on to the computers. Computer Configuration typically contains sub-items for software settings, Windows settings, and administrative templates.
    • User Configuration
      Administrators can use User Configuration to set policies that apply to users, regardless of which computer they log on to. User Configuration typically contains sub-items for software settings, Windows settings, and administrative templates.

    The GP Editor is a powerful tool, but must be used with caution. Please take the time to learn everything you can before playing too deeply in this. Try to get a second brain cell firing.

    The same Google search for XP Mode in Win 7 returns equally impressive results. Basically XP Mode enables Win 7 Pro, Enterprise or Ultimate edition users to enable an XP Mode or virtual XP environment to run older non-win 7 compliant apps or devices. This XP Mode is run within the Win 7 environment elliminating the need to dual boot with Win XP. I have not used it myself so a better explanation would have to come from those more cognizant of it's use. There are several threads for XP Mode in these forums.

    I am unsure of being able to dual boot a 32 Bit OS and a 64 Bit OS on different drives in the same PC. Remember however that even though both 32 Bit and 64 Bit disks come with a retail version of Win 7, only one or the other can be used with the supplied key.

    This is a very basic comparison of the Win 7 versions. The How To Geek link I previously gave is a "Must Read". There are literally hundreds of tips and tricks for all versions of Windows, and some other products.

    Have fun playing with what I believe is the best Windows version yet! I think you will find that Win 7 operates similarly as Vista. Many if not most of the Vista drivers will work in Win 7. I also have to concur that a visit to Windows 7 Upgrade Advisor and Compatibility Center is advisable.

    Fred, as a sidebar I added this info to a thread you started in Vista, but did not know if you would see it so I am including it here as well:

    Win 7 does have the slide show available. Right click on the Desktop and choose Personalize/ Desktop Backgrounds. Set it up with all your pics or the Windows pics or whatever. To get all the regional pics in one folder go to:

    C: Windows/Globalization/MCT, open each MCT folder and copy the pics to the MCT-US (or whatever)/United States folder. This gives many more of these landscapes when you choose United States in the Personalize setting. (I hope this is understandable. Once you install Win 7 and look at these folders you will understand)
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  9. #9
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    I now would like to try "7"
    Coming from Vista, as opposed to going from XP to Windows 7, you should have a relatively smooth time of it Fred.
    But I would still recommend the total clean install with TweakHound's Window's 7 install advice. A very good site, worthy of a bookmark imo.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  10. #10
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    JoeP,
    Hello, thanks for the link , i have downloaded and run it. A very useful tool ! As usual I'm in your debt. Regards Fred

    Clint,
    WOW ! what a great site ! it is now on my bookmarks! Regards Fred

    Ted , Once again I'm in your debt also . Thanks for the links and info.... can't get number two to "click in", getting old really stinks Regards Fred
    PS, I posted that link for everyone that still runs Vista or XP (make a slide show and use "7" back rounds.)
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  11. #11
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    Ted , Once again I'm in your debt also . Thanks for the links and info.... can't get number two to "click in", getting old really stinks Regards Fred
    PS, I posted that link for everyone that still runs Vista or XP (make a slide show and use "7" back rounds.)
    Fred,

    As can be seen by my picture, I'm in the same boat. Every once in a while I get a few more brain cells working. I tell everyone my mind is like a steel trap. Just getting a bit rusted.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  12. #12
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    254
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
    I'm glad that I've come back into this topic with more information from you Fred as assumptions can be a devil of a thing. It wasn't well stated in your initial post that you were the tweaker type but it definitely rings true now that I've read your later posts.

    Ted Meyers really hits the spot by recommending you Windows 7 Professional as a minimum and I completely agree for the reasons he has listed, Local Group Policy / XP Mode (Virtual Machine). It would also include Remote Desktop functionality which is not included in Home Premium and below.

    You've got quite a myriad of OS's there. It boggles my mind a little with the SP0/1/2 of the same core OS. Throwing in a linux distribution definitely mixes things up in terms of adding another OS to system. To be honest I am not up to speed on the exact steps you would need to take to make all OS's play nice with the linux/win bootloader.

    As mentioned by JoeP if you went down the mutli-boot path you would have to buy a retail version not an upgrade version to be legally clear and even from a technical point of view installing Windows 7 upgrade is not not a problem but activating it is where you'll run into issues.

    If you didn't already have enough to ponder I am going to throw RT Se7en Lite into the mix. It's in the same line of software as nlite/vlite if you have heard of them.

    http://www.rt7lite.com/

    It will help you tweak the OS before you install it. By that I mean you tweak an existing DVD image of your Windows 7 disc to include various tweaks/drivers/remove features etc. So when you install it's already part way how you like it.

    To be honest it's an entirely different ball game and hobby to get mixed into as you'll probably want to test your creations before going the whole hog as there are sometimes glitches with these sort of modifications depending how much of the OS you rip out. The concept is not new so it's not nearly as bad as it used to be back in early days of nlite with customised XP installations.

    Nearly forgot this part:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    Could you explain when comparing "Vista " to "7" Is it better overall, or faster ...or better in the installed stuff?
    This will partly come down to personal opinion as I've seen you've listed Internet Explorer to be a "bloatware" item. As you know this is not something easily removed or really something you want to remove on a whim as so many functions of any Microsoft OS depend on it and more so it's background components.

    I'd quite like other people from this thread to throw in their opinion of Windows 7 over Vista but we wouldn't want to derail the thread too much as I'm sure you'll find quite a few "Whats so good about 7" threads in the forum.

    I've found it to be a lot less clunky out of the box so to speak and a lot of my gripes have been ironed out whether they be performance related or power user orientated. It almost feels like Microsoft had Windows 7 in the works the whole time and Vista was just a marketing play (side tracking a little there). Performance is much better overall and it doesn't matter which SP1 of Vista I am comparing to. Running 7 32bit on my laptop and 7 64 bit on my desktop. Primarily because my laptop needs that driver compatibility due to my line of work and my desktop at home is a test bed and I want the power of 64 bit and I know my hardware will have the drivers before I connect it up.

    Sorry if this does not give you the overview that you are after but there is no single thing which sets it apart but for the most part it really is just a fine tuned engine in comparison to vista. Admittedly I have tweaked it to my liking because no OS is going to be perfect for every user out of the box.

    Hope I haven't put you all to sleep

  13. #13
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Don't worry about putting us to sleep. This seems to be a normal state of affairs for some of us. I believe it's because that thin gray stuff on top doesn't insulate our heads as well as it used to. Oops sorry, I fell asleep!

    I agree that Win 7 is a slicker OS than Vista. MS may have been trying for Win 7 when they gave us Vista, but many of you will remember Win ME as a stop gap between 98 and XP. I realize that Fred uses a different approach to security than I do in some of his OS's. With Win 7, I believe it is important to keep an OS up to date. Every OS in existance does from time to time need to be patched. Windows is under higher scrutiny and attack because of it's overall size in the computing world. Win 7 is considered the most secure of all Windows and maintaining this security does take some time each week, but is not so time consuming as to take away from productivity.

    I believe Fred will find a few differences in Win 7 over Vista, but will be surprised at how few. There are numerous ways to tweak this OS to make it speedier and to customize it the way you want it. I also agree that even if you use a different browser than IE, IE should be left in place as it does provide benefits for other apps. I routinely utilize FF as my browser, but there a a few sites, including the Lounge that render better for me in IE.

    One small change you can make to speed up boot time is:

    Run msconfig, boot tab, No GUI boot checked. Set time out to something more usable. I set it to 3 secs. Then go to advanced options. If you have a duo core or quad core processor, set the number of processors to what your system has. OK twice, I believe. This simple change does wonders for boot time. This is just one of the hundreds of tips available on the various tip sites for Win 7.

    I believe that even in a multiboot environment you can use the upgrade media. If you do a custom install you may have to sacrifice one of your 3 Vista installations as doing a custom (clean) install with the upgrade disk does require you to stop using the qualifying OS (In this case that would be one of the Vista installs, I think) Fred, that is something you may have to check with someone smarter than me to verify.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  14. #14
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Josh B,
    Thank you for your input.I have never heard of "rt7lite" but its now in my bookmarks ,i will explore this is time permits I haven't done a search on this but, if there is not much on this, perhaps you could start a new thread and fill us in how this works. For now I'm still trying to decide on which way to go .... Ted has pointed out some good points and i will probably go with "7" Pro. "a tweeker" is an understatement I'm what gives programmers nightmares. Being fairly new to the PC world its the way i learn (long as i have my Acronis loaded) Sleep ? oh yes i remember that.... something that used to happen at night.....all night Regards Fred

    Ted,
    Once again you have given me too much to process ! Could you clear up one point... I have looked at "7" Pro (newegg) there seems to be several "flavors". If i want the basic "7" pro, not the 3 pack, or the one for OEM pc builders , or upgrade, "which-a- one" would just give me a disk in hand ... that I would own and do with it what i want? Or is that the one that costs huge $$$$. Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  15. #15
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    Ted,
    Once again you have given me too much to process ! Could you clear up one point... I have looked at "7" Pro (newegg) there seems to be several "flavors". If i want the basic "7" pro, not the 3 pack, or the one for OEM pc builders , or upgrade, "which-a- one" would just give me a disk in hand ... that I would own and do with it what i want? Or is that the one that costs huge $$$$. Regards Fred
    I would get the Win 7 Pro Retail Upgrade. This will allow a clean install or upgrade. It should have both the 32 Bit and 64 Bit disk. The OEM 1-packs have either 32 Bit or 64 Bit, not both, they also do not allow a transfer to a different PC should you have that inclination. They are designed for new built PC's only without an exiting OS. The retail Upgrade does allow reinstalling on another PC as long as you remove from the original PC (This woud involve a call to MS to activate.) The retail upgrade allows either 32 Bit or 64 Bit installation, not both, and allows either an In Place Upgrade or Custom (Clean) Install. This is not the most expensive rendition, but not the cheapest either, but would be the most versatile for your needs.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •