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  1. #1
    2 Star Lounger Katz's Avatar
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    They have such a racket!! 5-year old car, no problem finding parts. Even my 15 year old Toyota, my 40-year-old sewing machine. But I needed a new mobo, and I asked Gigabyte about my CPU, and they replied "such an old CPU. Sorry it's not in our database any more. You can go to http://xxxxx, but it won't be listed there any more either."

    T
    hey're dating parts in dog years.

    I've been to 4 forums and 3 IT friends for 6 weeks trying to find a mobo. A forum devoted just to CPU's produced no answer at all. (Finally found ONE, but the specific CPU is not the issue here.)

    What a racket! We're constantly upgraded to technologies many of us don't use, and the older parts are made obsolete every few years.Do I need high-definition sound to talk to my friend on Skype on my 15-yearold speakers, hi-def graphics to play puzzles? A DVD-RW when I don't burn DVD's? A quad-core CPU for internet, email and Paint Shop Pro?

    One wise IT moderator advised me to get a quad-core CPU + matching mobo, not because I need one, but to make the system more future-proof in case the one part goes. Oh, one little hitch, I can't use my 2-year-old RAM, and maybe not my HD, and not my $60 HSF.... Added up the cost, had to get an older mobo to go with the "old" CPU.

    And then there's the software racket. Can't buy the old system any more, buy a new system, but now your software doesn't work, and half of your hardware, and don't you want the latest and greatest and fastest? FASTEST, that's most important!!

    NO.
    It's fast enough.

    Now I feel better.


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  2. #2
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    This will almost certainly depend on the size of the urban area you hunt in, but there is a market in used parts that may be off the screen entirely so far as hunting online is concerned, with the possible exception of finding them. In other words, shipping is such a hassle and an expense that you have to hoof it to the store, but the stores themselves may be concentrated in certain areas, such as the vicinity of a university. There is also a trade in resurrecting donated computers for charities, and if you know of such places they might have the part you want and be willing to barter it for any contribution you might make from your own equipment.

  3. #3
    2 Star Lounger Katz's Avatar
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    I live in the NYC metro area, maybe 30 million people, but the nearest parts store, MicroCenter, is too far away, through NJ traffic and a pricey bridge toll. I've tried buying parts from nearby repair shops, but each time I was overcharged, once by 5x the retail price, and the part was defective. Everyone's out to get you.

    I do get some used parts through my friend who's on the board of all 5 nearby
    PC user groups, but they're often ancient, only suitable for this old backup comp. People hold onto their old PC's as 2nd PC on their network, and don't chuck them till they're extremely dead, which is what I'm doing with my old PC. Anyway, used parts die prematurely, have no warranty, and finding the right parts at the right time can be a full-time profession.

    But you missed my point. I'm outraged at the racket the manufacturers and software developers have with making their products obsolete at an alarmingly rapid rate,
    more than any other consumer product I've seen in 64 years.
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    2 Star Lounger Katz's Avatar
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    Speaking of charity and the NY mentality--

    I've belonged 14 years to a PC users group, and about 6 months ago I was unemployed, extremely broke. There's a committee in our group that refurbs older comps and gives them to (501)c's. I offered to work among the volunteers one night in exchange for an old sound card, anything that functioned, explaining my financial situation, and that I would keep the "payment" under my hat. I was turned down with no reason given.
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  5. #5
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    Computers are a commodity. Storage and inventory are expensive. It may be cheaper to buy a new computer, and you may already be talking yourself into it, kicking and screaming as you go. Lots of us use them as glorified typewriters.

    Speaking of price and the matter of computers as commodities, chances are pretty good that the reason you are so attached to your existing computer is that it cost more than the quad-core contraption you rail against that has been recommended as a replacement. You might re-consider getting it, and all of the accessories that come with it. Your speakers will still be good, if redundant, and you’ll have an replacement set if they go kaput.

    You might enjoy Scary Efficiency

    from The Motley Fool.


  6. #6
    2 Star Lounger Katz's Avatar
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    I'm attached to my existing computer because I built it myself less than 2 years ago for $250. I reused my old speakers, mike and CD-RW, pricewise all minor items. And no, it's not cheaper to replace. Bottom line at Dell with XP is $607 w shipping, HP just as bad. One with Win 7 would make my scanner, printer, some software obsolete. Add that to the price.

    Everything is a commodity. No product has built-in obsolescence more than computers, and if you disagree, you might be one or 2 generations younger than me or you don't understand American marketing. Americans need everything newer and supposedly better constantly. Ask Intel or Microsoft how they feel about that, or the makers of the 54" TV's that cost $500 to mount on the wall.

    If someone else wants to get into this debate, we might have something interesting going here.
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  7. #7
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    Please note that the article on Dell was published in January 2005. To go even further back in reflecting on such matters, Henry Ford shocked his competitors with the Model T by increasing the wages of his workers. The result was that his workers could afford to buy the very automobiles they were manufacturing, increasing sales.

  8. #8
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    Since I shop at NewEgg for new parts and Ebay for used (read obsolete), I rarely feel like the victim that Rochelle believes she is. I live in Bergen county, NJ and the parts situation is not much better on this side of the bridge. Online shopping is the answer - not Micro Center. Frankly, they have a poor parts selection and high prices.

    I am no youngster either, Rochelle. I know American marketing as well as you do, but you have to keep certain facts in mind.

    1. Technology happens fast and it's happening 24/7. It's hard for anyone to keep up. Those that don't keep up (including enterprises) die.
    2. It's too expensive for tech companies to keep up with new stuff and still support "legacy" hardware and software. Programmers and driver writers are already busier than a one-legged man at a butt-kicking contest just keeping up with the new devices and software that their bosses are creating. They have no time to make new drivers for a 10-year old scanner in Windows 7 *or* their bosses cannot hire enough people to do it because they would have to increase the price of their new stuff. That would make the new stuff too expensive and non-competitive, price-wise.

    It bothers me as much as anyone. I hate having to buy a new CPU and RAM every time I need a new motherboard. Add to that the new SATA drives, PCIe and 24-pin PSUs and it gets really expensive for a "minor" upgrade. If you cannot afford new stuff, consider EBay for buying "legacy" parts.
    MS MCP, MCSE, MVP

  9. #9
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    HP desktop for $299 + tax and shipping:

    http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/sh.../p6300z_series

    I think it's a mistake to choose XP over Win 7 but if you must, use your old XP disks to install on the new PC. It's a pain to do but it saves you $300.

  10. #10
    2 Star Lounger Katz's Avatar
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    MildBill- I don't beieve I'm a victim. I believe that marketing is victimizing EVERYONE, and a lot of sheeple don't see it, or have lost any real priority of how to spend their money. (See Joan below.)

    Technology is not progressing to answer consumer demand; the tail is wagging the dog. Did the public demand a tri-core, then quad core CPU or mobos with 16 GB RAM, or was it the other way around? Did we know we had to edit our videos before the mfers told us we needed to?

    Mfers can't keep drivers for old parts, but don't need to constantly change those
    scanners (just an example). Did the public demand multiple changes in printers and scanners every year? If they sell a really reliable scanner that people can rely on for years, and build a reputation for quality, why take it off the market? Bec, of course, they won't work with Vista, or Win 7, or whatever comes next.

    Was the public clamoring for 54" TV's, or high-def? Did they know that Zune, Ipod, Kindle, Nook, Ipad were essential to their happiness before they actually bought them? Did anyone contact the cell phones and say they needed the internet while away from home?


    I can't afford a BMW, because there's also Toyota. Lower down the scale there's Hyundai. I don'thave to walk into the BMW place and explain to them I'm low-end. But I have no problem finding parts for my 15-year old Toyota either, oddly, not even the computer inside Why is it my mecahanic still repair my car easily, but 15-year old parts for a computer would be unthinkable. In fact trying to run a 15-year old comp with today's apps would be impossible, so don't bother.

    The sheeple have accepted it as their way of life, and as us older folks die out, the old ways of consumerism will be long forgotten. And the person who brought up the Model T is waaaaaaaay off here.
    We're not supporting American workers. We're supporting 3rd-World countries and China, where many folks can't afford to buy the elecronics they're producing.

    I have a customer who has 4 of those huge TV's at her place. She and spouse are uneducated, spouse has a small contracting co, let's call them by NYC area standards, middle-middle class. Home is maybe only $650,000, way below the Westchester County average. As my primary field is home repair, I can say the house was cookie cutter and built of junk, and with almost no surrounding property. So they're below many of my other clients.

    I was there during the last TV installation,
    done by specialists in TV installation. Price was $500, at that was 2 years ago. I wanted to shake her by the shoulders (but of course, didn't:)

    "Joan, you're living a modest life. Are you really a happier person now?
    Would your life be blighted without the 500 TV channels, of which 496 are still pouring out garbage? The content hasn't improved, only the medium is ever-changing." (cf: McLuhan)

    "Would the kids be considered uneducated (the worst insult I can think of) without the latest Ipods and smart-phones?
    Yet you nickel-and-dimed me about repairing the closet door. Is the door that keeps falling on people's toes less important than the $3000 TV's?"

    What will the Joans of the world do when the technologies on those TV's get a few years old? Have them removed, parts replaced, and rehung on the wall? Or just put them out on the lawn for garbage pickup, along with the old computers?
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  11. #11
    2 Star Lounger Katz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don J Brancaccio View Post
    HP desktop for $299 + tax and shipping: http://www.shopping....g/p6300z_seriesI think it's a mistake to choose XP over Win 7 but if you must, use your old XP disks to install on the new PC. It's a pain to do but it saves you $300.
    <font color="#4b0082">My printer, scanner, many apps won't run in Win 7. Did you consider that in your cost? I can replace the software with open-source, but the peripherals? Would you buy a used printer or the Brooklyn Bridge on Ebay? BTW--I have a perfectly good printer, the same model as mine, in the closet, to use when this one goes. My scanner is a refurb that I bought about 6 years ago, not from Ebay, and runs beautifully. </font><font color="#4b0082">Actually I repair computers as a sideline business. I have MSDN XP Pro and Home licenses, don't buy new copies. Not a mistake to keep XP. it works well for me, but not quite like my TV that has never needed a repair since I bought it in 2000. You've bought into MS's concept that newer and faster and more hip (the dancing windows in Vista" src="http://lounge.windowssecrets.com/public/style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif">) is better. MS mproved XP for 9 years, then they replaced it with an Edsel. Now they're replacing the Edsel with an admittedly better system that will need 9 more years of tweaks. Pleeeeeese. /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />"> But is it 7 better than XP? I've advised all my clints that unless they have some pressing need for a Win 7 feature, and if it works well for them, </font><font color="#4b0082">keep XP </font><font color="#4b0082">until the 2014 deadline. By that time, Win 7 will have some wrinkles ironed out too. But by 2014, MS will try to convince us that Win 7 is too old, and therefore inferior to the next one. I'm dual booting with Linux soon, and will have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, the general non-geeky public is not even aware of Linux. Linux will even run on this clunker.</font><font color="#4b0082"></font>
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  12. #12
    Super Moderator WebGenii's Avatar
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    Er, what's a mobo? (oh, a motherboard)

    Your comments are interesting in light of the fact that this weekend I was listening to Spark (which I highly recommend as a podcast). Anyhow they had an interview with Kyle Wiens of http://www.ifixit.com/.
    I often feel guilty about throwing stuff away (even after I've used it waaay beyond its designed lifetime). But I've frequently been pleasantly surprised by the utility of stuff I didn't "know" I needed (my smartphone as an example).
    [b]Catharine Richardson (WebGenii)
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RochelleP View Post
    My printer, scanner, several apps won't run in Win 7. Did you consider that in your cost? I can replace the software with open-source, but the peripherals?

    Actually I repair computers as a sideline business. I have an MSDN XP license for my business.

    Not a mistake to keep XP. it works well for me, but not quite like my TV that has never needed a repair since I bought it in 2000. You've bought into MS's concept that newer and faster and more hip (the dancing windows in Vista) is better. They, and I, have spent 9 years tweaking XP and making it more secure, then they replaced it with an Edsel. Now they're replacing the Edsel with another system that will need 9 more years of tweaks. Pleeeeeese.



    Did you understand my post? Or are you simply too angry about the inexorable march of progress to pay attention. I did not tell you to switch to Win 7 so there is no associated cost to consider.

    I was offering a reasonable solution to your problem, i.e. buy a cheaper system and install XP on it. This is something that you are obviously capable of doing so what's your problem?

    PS. Pardon me for suggesting that Win 7 is better than XP. If you prefer to live in a world without competing opinions you might want to look at Iran, or North Korea.

  14. #14
    New Lounger
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    I'm sorry, but this thread has turned into "Rochelle's Rant". I'm begging off.
    MS MCP, MCSE, MVP

  15. #15
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    Commercial firms need to cause obsolescence as a modern business survival policy.
    Make something that goes on working and sales die, then the company.
    This happened to tire manufacturers when radials lasting 25,000 miles instead of cross ply lasting 5 years first came out.
    Produce software that does not have the latest features and the reviews crucify it.

    Car manufacturers have to agree to hold spares for each model (a safety issue) for a fixed time so there are plenty available for years. Computers are not a public safety issue so no such rules.

    Consumer electronics are exactly that - produced to consume and throw away - a terrible model for the future of our planet.
    80% of Western economies are based on consuming what the Far East produces so they in turn can lend the West money to be able to pay for the consumption.
    The more we consume the cheaper the goods get.

    If you want a top quality operating system that runs and runs with practically any device of any age then install Ubuntu Linux.
    Open Source software is one part of the answer where thousands of programmers world-wide give their time and expertise freely to improve and share their work without costs for the benefit of all. Perhaps all a bit too socialist for those slavishly following the consume or die philosophy.

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