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  1. #1
    New Lounger
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    Just a couple of weeks or so ago, because I have consistently refused to install the WGA-equivalent patch that ended with 33 or 033, Microsoft threatened me with an imminent refusal to allow me to download further Microsoft Security Essentials definition updates. I reacted by flaming them back with angry comments. I purchased a genuine version of W7Pro just as it became available in Canada and have been using it for many months. I activated my OS version. So I don't care whether or not they want me to keep telling them I have a legitimate copy. Have any others been in receipt of similar threats?

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Mak, Welcome to the Lounge. Hope to see you often.

    I do have to disagree on this subject. My feeling is that why would you not want to prove your copy is authentic. This is MS way to attempt to cut down on the numbers of illegitimate, or illegal copies of Windows out there. These illegitimate copies are prime targets of malware, which then propogate the problems to the rest of us. I also believe that without these illegitimate copies all over the place, and the cost associated with fighting them, my cost to purchase a legitimate copy would be lower. These fakes cost us all a lot of money because the cost of fighting them is passed along to us when we purchase S/W. I'm sorry, but I believe this is an appropriate way for MS to help fight piracy and I am willing to participate in this fight as far as my meager means will. if this means proving my legitimate copy of Win 7 is legitimate each time I get updates, then so be it.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    Mak, Welcome to the Lounge. Hope to see you often.

    I do have to disagree on this subject. My feeling is that why would you not want to prove your copy is authentic. This is MS way to attempt to cut down on the numbers of illegitimate, or illegal copies of Windows out there. These illegitimate copies are prime targets of malware, which then propogate the problems to the rest of us. I also believe that without these illegitimate copies all over the place, and the cost associated with fighting them, my cost to purchase a legitimate copy would be lower. These fakes cost us all a lot of money because the cost of fighting them is passed along to us when we purchase S/W. I'm sorry, but I believe this is an appropriate way for MS to help fight piracy and I am willing to participate in this fight as far as my meager means will. if this means proving my legitimate copy of Win 7 is legitimate each time I get updates, then so be it.
    Ted,

    I always respect your advice and opinions, but on this I disagree. Proving time and again that you legitimately own a product is like big brother always looking over your shoulder. Just as in our legal system proving ownership or innocence should only be necessary under probable cause. You don't need to prove your ownership of your car, house or everyday possessions every time you use them, so why should I prove my computer OS every time MS thinks it might be counterfeit? As far as driving up cost, I don't believe it is any thing significant (at least here in the US). As we all know price will always be what the traffic will bear. I also am against piracy, but once proven that I legally bought and own a product that should be the end of it. Just like you can't be tried twice for the same crime. And make no mistake that software piracy is a federal crime with severe punishment. Our friend here and you and I, bought our OS and proved it at time of purchase and upon activation. He is innocent of this instance of OS piracy and that should be the end of it. I also have not installed the WGA, but have not been harassed about it. It may sound simplistic, but I'm innocent until proven guilty and MS should only have one shot at proving me guilty. After the first legal purchase and install activation what probable cause does MS have in continually asking if I have a legitimate copy of MY software?

    Ted, as always I enjoy your comments.

    Norm

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Deadeye81's Avatar
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    This is a controversial issue, and from what I have read, some users have been notified via WGA that their copies of Windows are counterfeit after months of WGA confirming the legitimacy of the license. If those reports are true, then WGA can be a very antagonistic aggravation. I do not know how much time such users have had to spend on the phone with Microsoft to straighten things out. However, no doubt some copies detected as counterfeit have been exactly that.

    I allowed WGA to place its files on my machines, and so far I have not experienced any inconvenience. I suppose the one thing we need to remember is that we do not actually "own" the copy of Windows that we "bought" whether as a retail or OEM purchase, but rather we own the license to use the software. I have always thought in terms of "owning" the Windows software, but that is not true in the same sense of owning a boat, car, truck, or motorcycle that we purchase.

    I can understand MS wanting to eliminate the proliferation of counterfeit copies of their software. I can also see how that can benefit legitimate users of the software. However, MS needs to ensure WGA is transparent and virtually unobserved by valid license holders.
    Deadeye81

    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give." Sir Winston Churchill

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Gerald, so true. I had forgotten that we actually just purchase a license to use the software from MS, and probably most others we have to pay to use. I, like most others, do not take the time to fully enjoy the EULA from MS. I suppose I should, but I just do not have the time.

    Norm, yes you should not have to prove ownership of that license each and everytime you use it, except that people that have legitimate copies can also have illegitimate copies on the same or other PC's. As Gerald states, the inconvienence of the WGA is almost non-existant in most cases. I too have read of some legitimate copies having problems, but have no personal experience or knowledge of this. I would like to thank you for the vote of confidence in my responses.

    I guess bottom line is if somehow, with minimal inconvienence to legitimate users, all illegitimate copies could be elliminated we could all have more money in our pockets. I do not believe the WGA causes me enough problems to fight it's existence and if it will help my bottom line at some point in time I am willing to do my part in that fight.
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  6. #6
    New Lounger Corrine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Shepard View Post
    I suppose the one thing we need to remember is that we do not actually "own" the copy of Windows that we "bought" whether as a retail or OEM purchase, but rather we own the license to use the software. I have always thought in terms of "owning" the Windows software, but that is not true in the same sense of owning a boat, car, truck, or motorcycle that we purchase.
    Bravo! Well said.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corrine View Post
    Bravo! Well said.
    +1

  8. #8
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Wallyinnc and Corrine welcome to the Lounge, to both of you. I hope you come back often. As always, the Lounge is open to and welcomes disagreements on topics. A heated , but civil, discussion seems to always bring out a diverse set of ideas we can all learn from. I thought I was pretty knowledgeable in PCs and Windows, but have learned countless new things from ALL the experts here. I started back with Langa List and graduated to Windows secrets when the 2 merged and have enjoyed every minute I spend in these forums, so again, welcome and have fun.

    Sorry I got off topic a little.
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  9. #9
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    Well, thanks for the welcome, everybody. However, I am still annoyed at the presumption of MS to CONTINUALLY try to force me to prove the authenticity of my copy of Windows 7. I paid them good money. I activated the copy with a legitimate key, I even allowed WGA to run on my machine for well over 8 months before they sent along another patch. If they cannot manage things so they don't bother legitimate users, that is not my problem. They are doing their best to drive me over to sole reliance on Linux, which is getting better and better and more user-friendly all the time. Some of you may like living under the thumb of officious and arrogant tyrants, but not me. If they wish to pay my cost of having a technician or lawyer verify the legitimacy my copy of Windows, great. They can call me and arrange it. My phone number is [Removed]. Otherwise, like the police and over-zealous government bureaucrats, please keep out of my face. I discontinued the use of Google Mail as a backup for my personal emails for similar reasons. No one should have to tolerate tyrants. I suggest those of you who are willing to do so are encouraging such anti-democratic behavior by your acquiescence.

  10. #10
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Mak,

    I do respect your opinion even though it differs from my own. I blame all those people that propogate illegal copies of software, and all those people that allow this propogation by buying this illegal software. I cannot blame a company that is attempting to stop this behavior. I also wish there were other ways to do this, I really do. Yes it can be a nuisance and yes I wish it were not necessary. I have also begun experimenting in Linux, but will never give up my Win 7 to go totally to Linux. I do enjoy the features I have grown accustomed to. Mak I wish you the best in your future disagreements with MS, and your use of Linux. Have a great day.

    Ted
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  11. #11
    New Lounger Corrine's Avatar
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    Thanks for the welcome, Ted.

    MAK, there is a valid reason why Microsoft needs to update WGA. There are tools that pirates use to bypass validation. As those tools are discovered and added to detection by Microsoft, the pirates find other ways around validation. Thus, another check is needed. Yes, it is unfortunate that those of us who have legitimate licenses have to pay the price resulting from piracy. Here's an interesting report by Ed Bott: Confessions of a Windows 7 pirate


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  12. #12
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Very good article Corrine, thank you. In this constantly changing environment we have to be vigilant, and so does MS in fighting these individuals that insist on doing things illegally and causing all legitimate users the inconvienence of spending the time it takes to follow the rules. I will never say no to prove my copies of Win 7 are legal.
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  13. #13
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    I have 5 legitimate Win 7 licences and I currently block the WAT update KB971033 from them all. In my opinion it serves no useful function for me and it may cause me substantial difficulty if I allow it. I had trouble with a Vista installation where it was wrongly flagged as non genuine. After a lot of phoning Microsoft and getting not much help I eventually reinstalled the OS, using the same activation key, and we all lived happily ever after. Ever since then, where I have been able, I block anything to do with revalidating my licences. On some downloads where you have to have your system checked as Genuine before a download, I allow that because I want the download. If I had no choice to install the WAT update then I would but after the first reboot I would go into the Task Scheduler and update the two WAT tasks to a maximum delay for future checking. I would also set an Outlook reminder to keep updating the two tasks before they kicked off. I also block the Office Genuine Advantage Notifications (KB949810) for the same reasons. When I get forced to install these updates I will but while they are optional then they will not be knowingly installed. If they slip through (unlikely because I check and read the description for every update before installation) and I notice them then I would uninstall them.

    This is an interesting subject which polarises opinions very strongly. An example here http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum....cfm?t=1383565 which got so heated that I dropped out.
    Bob
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAK View Post
    They are doing their best to drive me over to sole reliance on Linux, which is getting better and better and more user-friendly all the time.
    I have been waiting for well over 10 years for Linux to get better. Unfortunately it is consistently a day late and a dollar short when it comes to ease of use and choice of tools. If MAK believes that Linux is the answer, he/she should try to exist solely on it for at least a month. I did exactly that and was frustrated by the results.

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    I had my laptop upgraded to 7 Ultimate. I liked it so I had my desktop upgraded as well. I received 2 keys, separate numbers, no discs. Now my laptop is getting a message the office program is not legitimate. Yesterday I got a message from MS? that my windows 7 ultimate is counterfeit. Now what?: How do I know I am not receiving spam about this situation?

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