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  1. #1
    3 Star Lounger
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    Hello, I need some help setting up a wireless network in a 6 story building.

    The building has cable internet service which comes into a room located on the 3rd floor. (We will call this "Room A".)
    There is an ethernet cable that goes from that room to a room in the basement. (This will be "Room B".)

    I want to setup a wireless extended network using 2 wireless routers as follows:

    Room A Setup:

    From the street the cable service goes into the cable modem.
    From the cable modem an ethernet cable goes to the first wireless router.
    From the first wireless router an ethernet cable goes to room B.

    Room B Setup:

    Ethernet cable from room A connects to a second wireless router for extended wireless signal in the basement.

    To hopefully make this less confusing I have a diagram below:

    Room A: [Cable Service -----> Cable Modem -----> Wireless Router ---]
    Room B: [---> Wireless Router]

    How can I get this to work? I would like it to work as if you had a single wireless router that had a very long wireless range.
    In other words If I were to walk in every location of the building with a laptop on the internet I want it to work without any interruptions.

    Thanks,
    Andrew
    Time can fix anything.....even a broken clock. - Handy Andy

  2. #2
    5 Star Lounger
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    1> be sure that the DHCP server is turned off on all but one device on this network.

    2> plug the ethernet cable from the MODEM into the WAN or internet port on router #1 from there on only LAN ports are used. (you will not use the WAN port on the second router at all.)

    3> Give both routers the SAME SSID and the same type of encryption (WPA2) and the same access key. Put the routers on different channels. (Ideally channel 1 and channel 11 if you are in the US)

    4> connect your laptop to the wireless network, set the connection as "automatic" and roam away. You will NOT cover a whole 6 story building with only two devices unless the building is very small.

    Your laptop should "hand off" automatically to the strongest signal. This works with varying degrees of success. I have a wireless network in a medical building that has 6 access points. We have wireless devices that connect to a SQL database and are constantly logged in and in motion being carried by nurses and doctors. They seldom, if ever, drop a signal. We are using commercial grade Cisco access points and their "hand off" process is better then most residential wireless routers.

    If you are just using this for web browesing, etc. it will probably be fine, the most picky of all devices is a voip wireless telephone. They will not hold a call through ANY drop at all.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Check out this article on the Cisco website.
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
    Laptop Specs

  4. #4
    3 Star Lounger
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    I am away from that building right now, but I will get back to you on how it goes.
    Thanks a lot.
    Time can fix anything.....even a broken clock. - Handy Andy

  5. #5
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    Another option you might care to consider that I have used in Cyprus in a large house with 18" thick stone walls and rebar (steel) filled concrete floors (Faraday cage effect) is to use Powerline networking.

    If the whole office block is on the same mains electrical distribution it is simple to do - after experimentation with a couple of manufacturers I personally have standardized on devolo dLANŽ 200 AVsmart+ adapters (http://www.devolo.co.uk/consumer/70_...on_1.html?l=en) the first one is connected to the initial router and then I have mains powered plug-in wi-fi units judiciously scattered around the house - the result is a strong wi-fi signal everywhere. The devolo units self encrypt and despite trying I have been unable to break into the network without a password.

    These devolo units have performed flawlessly for the past 6 months or so

    I am not sure whether devolo are available in the USA (they are German), however there are several manufacturers in the PowerLine market - the only thing that I can say (carefully!!!) about any other manufacturer is that I personally will NEVER EVER buy Belkin again!!

    Autobackup

  6. #6
    5 Star Lounger
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    Paul,

    I have heard about these units. What kind of speeds do you get?

  7. #7
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    What you need is not a second router. What is used in big buildings is a Wireless Bridge, which is not the same as a router. A bridge simply acts as a pass-through, and does not degrade the signal or introduce delays. Another type of bridge is a Wireless Extender, which is a simple repeater. Or, use an extended range antenna, which is probably the cheapest solution, if it works. All cost money, but are not very expensive. these products can be found on line or in any good computer store. One advantage of a Wireless Bridge is that it can introduce extra security at the hardware level, sort of like a VPN router.
    -- Bob Primak --

  8. #8
    5 Star Lounger
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    Bob,

    I think if I understand th OP correctly he is not trying to bridge. In a bridge scenario, he would be connecting the second access point wirelessly to the first access point and then retransmit (or repeat) the signal to the second room from the second access point.

    (this can even get more in depth with self healing mesh networks using any number of wireless access points with multiple wired connections to the base network but that is not a discussion for this thread)

    The way I read the question, the OP will be pulling cable from the first location to the second location and then is attempting to cover the second location with wireless signal. He wants to be able to seamlessly roam between the two locations with his laptop or other wireless devices.

    Most residential routers will not create a bridge as described in the first paragraph with the stock manufacturer's firmware. They are not the ideal device to do the project described in the second application either although they will work using the instructions above and are less expensive then the hardware that is actually designed to do it.

  9. #9
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    I would say cabling is still the way to go. If you have Ethernet cable from 3rd floor to basement, the building maybe already have a way to route cables up to 6th floor and down to basement as well. Beware, Ethernet cabling is limited to 100M long per length. You need hub, or, router, or switch, as buffer if the length is longer than 100 meters.

    Speed concern is another reason.

    Assume you use Wireless or Powerline Ethernet Adapter (PEA). Let's say the real world practical speed per adapter is 50Mbps.
    If each floor has one user, you'd have 5 users sharing one adapter. (Basement not included because it has hard wiring per this situation here). That means each share is 10Mbps. If you have 2 users per floor, it is 5Mbps per share. If you 10 users per floor (50 total users), you're down to 1Mbps per person. Still not bad if you only do Internet surfing. 1Mbps per user is plenty fast for net surfing.
    You might say if only 1 user out of 50 users is actually downloading a web page in one instant, shouldn't the person has all 50Mbps? No! Powerline Adapter, and wireless, is not a switch. It is more like a hub, the bandwidth (the wireless radio frequency, or the frequency used in the AC wiring) are evenly divided by the number of users and the number of adapters plugged into the wall outlets.

    My experience is good re the old power line adapters and the recently new adapters.
    However, the claimed speed is the ideal speed. Practical real world speed is about 1/5 to 1/3 of it, mostly 1/3. For example, the recent 200Mbps Powerline Adapter I have is 1/3, about 66Mbps. Some is down to 1/5, or 40Mbps. It is very dependent on AC line impedance and how noisy it is.
    At 66Mbps, I have no trouble streaming HD video files (1080p, and 720p). I use only 2 adapters. I have experience plugging in more than 3. Remember, one is to receive, the rest transmit. That is, in a 3-adapter example, two are sharing the AC line bandwidth (shared bandwidth=bandwidth/(n-1)). Or, 200/(3-1)=100Mbps in ideal speed case, or practically, 66Mbps is now down to 66/2=33Mbps. I later replaced one adapter with hard wiring. I need to stream HD video file. I need all the speed I can get. (Wireless is too slow for me. Video stutters.)


    For Powerline Adapter, you need to find the 'best' wall outlet. If the building is apartment building, and each floor has separate electrical meters, the AC wiring may not be wired connect directly. Broadband signal from the adapter may not hop through wiring too well. Ditto if the floors use different phase for major power wiring. (Utility has 3 phases to carry power). Then each wall outlet may not be the same phase (same wires). So you need to experiment. Plug in and try to transfer file to test speed. Try get the faster speed.
    The main receiving central adapter is very important. This is the one connected to the router that connects to cable modem. All the rest of adapters talk to this main adapter before going to the cable modem.

    The wall outlet closest to the cable modem may not be the best for speed.
    For speed, it is preferred that a Powerline Adapter 'owns' the entire wall outlet, no other plug here. If you have to share the wall outlet, use an extension cord, as long as possible (3 feet and the longer the better). All other devices use this extension. Only the Powerline Adapter plugs directly to that wall outlet.

    Powerline Adapter will sense the wall outlet AC impedance and use the optimum speed based on this impedance. An extension cord with long enough wire (3 ft and longer) will create enough impedance (in high frequency) that isolates the wall outlet's impedance from the other devices plugging into the extension cord. Never plug the Powerline Adapter into an extension. Plug it directly to the wall outlet for best performance.

    Sounds complicated but it is much easier than wireless (and you pay for it).
    If you prefer, there is no software installation. Really plug and play. This is especially true using the same brand and model. If you want to, you can install the software. With it you can monitor speed, and change the encryption key/password, etc.

    Powerline Adapter is particularly good for stationary desktop PCs. Just plug and play. No software is needed. It is PC neutral. Get a new desktop PC? Just plug in the Ethernet cable from the Powerline Adpater and your are go. Powerline Adapter makes it easy wiring for TV and Blue Ray player, where hard wiring cannot reach, and when wireless is too weak and slow.

    One complaint: It is expensive.
    200Mbps adapter is US$100-180. You need at least a pair.
    And frequently they don't mix. Advise use same brand and same model. **Don't.** mix new and old adapters, which will slow you down to the old adapter slow speed.

    Re Wireless:
    If you can change to a long antenna, it will increase significant distance and speed.
    Use of wireless bridge is not good if you want to extend distance, in my experience. This is because the wireless bridge does double duty. It talks two-way with the origination wireless router. Then it is also two-way with the user connected to the bridge. In effect, it halves the origination router speed. For example, if the origination router is 80Mbps in wireless (when it reaches the bridge not too far away), and if the bridge is a perfect retransmit, the two-way communication would be 1/2 the original router speed: 40Mbps. And that assumes the bridge is not far away from the router, and the bridge is perfect in wireless.

  10. #10
    New Lounger
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    Look at using a wireless range expander such as Linksys WRE54G. I have set up several of these at a business that is located in three converted houses to provide wireless access on the same network. They are inexpensive (I bought refurbish ones on eBay), and easy to set up. You can plug them directly into a wall outlet or use the power cord that come with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by HandyAndy View Post
    Hello, I need some help setting up a wireless network in a 6 story building.

    The building has cable internet service which comes into a room located on the 3rd floor. (We will call this "Room A".)
    There is an ethernet cable that goes from that room to a room in the basement. (This will be "Room B".)

    I want to setup a wireless extended network using 2 wireless routers as follows:

    Room A Setup:

    From the street the cable service goes into the cable modem.
    From the cable modem an ethernet cable goes to the first wireless router.
    From the first wireless router an ethernet cable goes to room B.

    Room B Setup:

    Ethernet cable from room A connects to a second wireless router for extended wireless signal in the basement.

    To hopefully make this less confusing I have a diagram below:

    Room A: [Cable Service -----> Cable Modem -----> Wireless Router ---]
    Room B: [---> Wireless Router]

    How can I get this to work? I would like it to work as if you had a single wireless router that had a very long wireless range.
    In other words If I were to walk in every location of the building with a laptop on the internet I want it to work without any interruptions.

    Thanks,
    Andrew

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