Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Hello all,
    OK ...I'm going to take another beating for this question ...but i have been thinking about this for a while ( with my helmet properly affixed) here goes...When you purchase "Windows " whatever version .. you have to agree before you can load the "OS" My question is what happens if you don't agree ? ... Does Windows issue a refund ? You can't return the software .. if you have opened the box...So.... what kind of "agreement is that anyway... as you really don't have a choice in the first place ? Seems to me that if you can not get a refund and can't return the software ... the agreement is really of none effect as you don't actually have a choice.
    Question #2.... What actually constitutes a "OS"... Another HD in a box on my shelf, are my images of other systems ? they are on my disks .... and can be brought back to life with the click of my mouse, and as they only can be loaded one at a time ... hence....One operating system. This "EULA" seems to me completely ambiguous, and if i was an attorney i would bring a case against MS. ....Let the "flogging begin" Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  2. #2
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,568
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,056 Times in 925 Posts
    You can get a refund. See Windows refund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for more details.

    What's the point of question #2? You are allowed to make a copy of the install media for backup purposes. You may backup your system for safety/recovery purposes. Microsoft provides backup software even though its usefulness is debateable. There are differences in the EULA for version of Windows (i.e. XP, Vista, Win7,etc.) and SKUs (i.e. home vs professional).

    Joe
    Joe

  3. #3
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
    You can get a refund. See Windows refund - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia for more details.

    What's the point of question #2? You are allowed to make a copy of the install media for backup purposes. You may backup your system for safety/recovery purposes. Microsoft provides backup software even though its usefulness is debateable. There are differences in the EULA for version of Windows (i.e. XP, Vista, Win7,etc.) and SKUs (i.e. home vs professional).

    Joe
    Joe,
    Hello... The "wiki" answer is almost as impossible to understand as the "EULA" itself.... As to question #2 I'm not talking about making a backup for the system that I'm running.. i get that. ...What about backups of previous systems "Vista" "XP"... seeing how that they are on my PC are they considered an OS ? ..I can "boot em up" in a few clicks ... should they be destroyed ? What if i want to go back to Vista for example.. well then i would only have Vista booted up and not "7" ...but i still have "7" as an image, and could put it back. What if i take an old "cloned " Hd and reconnect it.. that has another OS on it ? ... still only one "OS".. see what i mean? .. its ambiguous . And why shouldn't i be allowed to "go back" to a former OS if i want and still keep the new ..although it's just an image at this point. Regards Fred
    Attached Images Attached Images
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  4. #4
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,568
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,056 Times in 925 Posts
    Further in the article:

    [attachment=89559:Capture.PNG]


    Question #2:

    I believe that as long as you are USING one OS at a time (i.e. not using VMs) you are fine. In your scenario when you restore a different OS the previously loaded OS is no longer in use so you still only have one OS in use.

    If you are using VMs, each VM is a separate machine as far as licensing is concerned. Therefore, you need a valid license for each OS that is active. This can get complicated if you have used upgrade licensing and still have the original OSes that were upgraded. The upgrade (i.e. newer) OS takes over the license of the older OS. I interpret that to mean that with a VM you can't legally have both running at the same time.

    Licensing is a vast confusing area that I'm not comfortable giving advice about. There can be more than one interpretation, even by Microsoft folk, of how a EULA is interpreted.

    Joe
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Joe

  5. #5
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
    Question #2:

    I believe that as long as you are USING one OS at a time (i.e. not using VMs) you are fine. In your scenario when you restore a different OS the previously loaded OS is no longer in use so you still only have one OS in use.

    Licensing is a vast confusing area that I'm not comfortable giving advice about. There can be more than one interpretation, even by Microsoft folk, of how a EULA is interpreted.

    Joe
    I completely agree "vast confusing area" Here's where the "smoke and mirrors" (as far as I'm concerned) of MS's "EULA" What's the difference between Having a "Image" of a OS on your HD, or having a OS on another HD or partition ? .... What ? The number of mouse clicks to bring up the other OS? Or is it the time to connect another HD to your docking station ? Still... you end up with the same thing one OS at a time. Or how about this scenario. What if i have My Vista OS as "Hidden"...or "unlabeled " seems that the possibility's are legion.and mostly unanswerable Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  6. #6
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,568
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,056 Times in 925 Posts
    AFAIK (As far as I know), the well established provision of "fair use" allows you to make copies for backup purposes. As long as you are only using one copy the others are not a license violation. I don't think the format, number of mouse clicks, etc. are relevant.

    Are we now in the "beating a dead horse" arena?

    Joe
    Joe

  7. #7
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
    Are we now in the "beating a dead horse" arena?

    Joe
    Joe ,
    Yes.... Only kidding about the "mouse clicks".... Thanks for your input Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  8. #8
    5 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Burrton, KS, USA
    Posts
    833
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    I like to follow the "spirit" of the law, sometimes the "letter" is too difficult......

    One machine running one license at one time. If I have a Win7 host with the same Win7 license running in a Virtual machine on that host that is 2 machines running the same license.

    If I have a desktop and a laptop running the same Win7 License that is two machines even if they aren't both running at the same time, because sometime they will be.

    If I have two bootable partitions on the same machine that can only be run One at a time, I would do it. (this is probably not allowed in the EULA and remember this is not legal advice and you are on your own...... )

    If I have "cloned" the virtual hard drive and have multiple hard drive files on my physical machine but do not attach them to Virtual machines and boot them up, these are "backups" in my books. However, if I have 10 virtual machines connected and ready to go and they all are running the same license, I would consider this a violation.....


    (I still don't see this horse moving.......)

  9. #9
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    Renton, Washington, USA
    Posts
    12,560
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    I understand that if one uses a "Upgrade" version the the previous version is now null and void. It is NOT to be used again under any conditions, except if the removal of the upgrade and then the previous version can be restored to the hardware.

    You can make as many "Images" of your system that you want, but they are to be restored to the same hardware that they were made from, with the exception of a new hard drive being installed. A image is NOT a functional OS, as it requires to be restored to the hardware to be functional.

    As for a refund, most software can be returned to the retailer, but you must assure them (the retailer) that you did not install or you removed the said software from your machine(s). Some retailers require that you provide a valid reason for the return of said software.

    Now running HP Pavilion a6528p, with Win7 64 Bit OS.

  10. #10
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    DaveA, mercyh,
    Hello and thank you both for your input,.... This is exactly why i posted this thread ... the "EULA" is in "mombo jombo land"and if you ask 10 people you will likely get 20 different answers. I would like if "MS" would spell out exactly what they mean , instead of a bunch of wording that can mean different things to everyone.... Hey.... spell it out, No... this or that. does not sound that hard to do . Also put it right up front that if you don't want to comply with our rules ( read "sit down, and shut up, and say YES SIR! ") then we will refund your purchase price ... here's the toll free number (end of rant) Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  11. #11
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,501
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 205 Times in 163 Posts
    Fred, you're a jewel among men!
    You actually asked the question that many others would like to ask but don't have the nads to ask.

    If I gave you MY favorite answer to your question, I'd be banned, flogged, hung, shot and then cremated
    and my ashes flushed.
    So I'll just say "Thank you for a stimulating topic" and leave it there.
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •