Backup doesn't Use Right Files?

[CWBillow]

I had a problem with one of my programs -- Open Office 3.2 - that uptimately caused my system to get very flaky. I thought "That's no problem, 'cause I'll just restore it from an image backup." So I did -- but the OO install restored as well - or never got removed. I teried it over again -- three times -- just to make sure, and got the same result each time.

Then I tried deleting the partition -- leaving me with a blank drive -- the WHOLE drive as it was all Drive C. Then when I resotee it, it wouldn't boot

So I "started over": I deleted *everything*, and reinstalled Windows 7. Fine. It now boots up. SO then I thought I'd try to restore the same partition -- yup, the same one that I used before. This time, it wrote to Drive C fine, bringing back all the settings etc., and no OpenOffice this time.

How the heck could the first part of this scenario happen? If I restore an entire platter that does NOT have OO installed, where the heck did it come from? Not from the "C" aprtition, because it was not, as I knew before, there, and did not show up after reinstalling Windows?

Chuck

[JoeP517]

What backup software are you using?

Are you sure you did a partition restore and not a selective restore?

Joe

[Medico]

Chuck,

An image does include everything on your partition. If your original image was made when OO was installed, then your image will include OO. Think of the image as a photograph of your partition. The photo will show everything that was in frame when it was taken. The same thing can be said of an image. It will include everything on the partition. In my case when I image my whole HD, everything in all 3 of my partitions will be included. In this case it makes no difference what imaging software you use. If your original OS had any problems, then these problems will also be restored when you restore the image. In order to not include OO in the image it would have to be completely uninstalled prior to making the image. In this case I would use Revo Uninstaller to uninstall OO then clean out all temp. files, temp internet files, etc, defrag, run several malware and AV scans to ensure everything is cleaned up, then create the image. This is the best way to ensure a clean image that includes just the apps you want to include.

The reason it would not boot when you deleted the partition is probably because the MBR was deleted as well. There have been several threads specifically in Security and Backups, that show how to fix a broken MBR.

.

[CWBillow]

Chuck,

An image does include everything on your partition. If your original image was made when OO was installed, then your image will include OO. Think of the image as a photograph of your partition. The photo will show everything that was in frame when it was taken. The same thing can be said of an image. It will include everything on the partition. In my case when I image my whole HD, everything in all 3 of my partitions will be included. In this case it makes no difference what imaging software you use. If your original OS had any problems, then these problems will also be restored when you restore the image. In order to not include OO in the image it would have to be completely uninstalled prior to making the image. In this case I would use Revo Uninstaller to uninstall OO then clean out all temp. files, temp internet files, etc, defrag, run several malware and AV scans to ensure everything is cleaned up, then create the image. This is the best way to ensure a clean image that includes just the apps you want to include.

The reason it would not boot when you deleted the partition is probably because the MBR was deleted as well. There have been several threads specifically in Security and Backups, that show how to fix a broken MBR.

.

Ted et al;

At the risk of sounding completely looney:

I use Acronis True Image, and I understand that if I am imaging, it picks up everything.

I mounted the image and checked it -- OO was not installed there. Then, I went to an separate partition program, and deleted all the partitions on that disk. Then I restored the disk from the TI image -- reinstalling the ddisk, because Windows, my drive "C", is the only thing on that platter.

When I loooooked OO was back there. I know: it must be haunted -- AND it wouldn't boot, which it was able to do at the time of the imaging.

So I went back to my Windows install, and tried to fix the startup, but that didn't work.

So ultimatelym, I deleted all the partitions, reinstalled Windows, and then restored *just* the "C" partition for TI -- not the whole disk, even though the "C" drive is all that was on it.

That worked.

Damned if I know how or why.

Chuck

[Roderunner]

Chuck, you never said what Acronis version your using. Mine is TI HOME 2010, with 2 types of backup, one click backup is a system state, disks + partitions is a data backup. This I know means little to you unless you've read the user guide. The final setting is how the 'overwrite' options are set up

[attachment=90006:White Paper.JPG]

[CWBillow]

Chuck, you never said what Acronis version your using. Mine is TI HOME 2010, with 2 types of backup, one click backup is a system state, disks + partitions is a data backup. This I know means little to you unless you've read the user guide. The final setting is how the 'overwrite' options are set up

[attachment=90006:White Paper.JPG]

RR:

I'm using 2010 as well -- Home.

I was/am under the impression that if I restore a partition, TI deletes any partition that may be there, and then restores the entire partition. I surely could be wrong...I'll take a look.

Thanks,
Chuck

[Medico]

RR:

I'm using 2010 as well -- Home.

I was/am under the impression that if I restore a partition, TI deletes any partition that may be there, and then restores the entire partition. I surely could be wrong...I'll take a look.

Thanks,
Chuck

Chuck, That is what an image restore does. It will take your image and replace whatever is on the partition with the image. That's assuming the image was successfully created.

If I understand your most recent post, you created an image of your OS (C drive) partition at some point in time. You then deleted all partitions on your PC and attempted to restore from your image. When you did, OO was reinstalled by the image. If this is correct, then my comment is that the image included OO and did as it is supposed to do. I DO NOT believe you can mount the image and delete parts of the image before you restore that image to your HD. It's all or none. To do what you want you would have to restore your HD using your original image, then uninstall whatever apps you do not want on the image, then recreate a new image to use for future restores.

My feeling is that recreating images whenever any change takes place on your PC is a good thing. This way your PC image will be up to date so the restore is also up to date. That way the total restore is much quicker.

I hope I have understood your post and answered your question.

Cheers, Ted (Mug o Java)

Note: When you deleted your partitions, did you then combine all previous partitions into one partition that included all the space on your HD? I think you did, but am not sure. If not use any partitioning app (I use Partition Wizard) for this chore.

[CWBillow]

Chuck, That is what an image restore does. It will take your image and replace whatever is on the partition with the image. That's assuming the image was successfully created.

If I understand your most recent post, you created an image of your OS (C drive) partition at some point in time. You then deleted all partitions on your PC and attempted to restore from your image. When you did, OO was reinstalled by the image. If this is correct, then my comment is that the image included OO and did as it is supposed to do. I DO NOT believe you can mount the image and delete parts of the image before you restore that image to your HD. It's all or none. To do what you want you would have to restore your HD using your original image, then uninstall whatever apps you do not want on the image, then recreate a new image to use for future restores.

My feeling is that recreating images whenever any change takes place on your PC is a good thing. This way your PC image will be up to date so the restore is also up to date. That way the total restore is much quicker.

I hope I have understood your post and answered your question.

Cheers, Ted (Mug o Java)

Note: When you deleted your partitions, did you then combine all previous partitions into one partition that included all the space on your HD? I think you did, but am not sure. If not use any partitioning app (I use Partition Wizard) for this chore.

Ted:

What you are saying makes perfect sense, and is exactly what I have been experiencing for the last several years. But:

When this occurred the first time, I figured that, as you remark, that OO must have been part of the image, So I mounted the image and checked. It wasn't there. So then, I said to myself "Self, you must have chosen the wrong image, so do it again." I did. Same result. Then I checked the image again. No OO present. Then I figured that it must not be actually deleting the old image (which is what it is supposed to do, both logically and in the documentation from Acronis), so I went into a partition program, deleted the partition (only one on the drive), and then went back to that same image file and restored it -- no OO this time.

It is Partition Wizard that I used as well, Ted.

I've restored images multiple times, and never had this issue. Acronis always just went in and deleted whatever was there and then restored the partition I had selected to the location I chose.

Makes no sense to me either Ted.

Regards,
Chuck

[Medico]

I have never seen this action myself, but then the partition I am restoring generally has the same apps as the old image. The differences are possible upgrades, and as long as my image is up to date it seems to overwrite the old partition with the new image, so I guess I could not hazard a guess as to why you seemed to not get the image overwritten correctly. This is very strange. Do you have the latest update of Acronis? I am using Acronis 2011 (newest version) with the latest build. It seems to be working correctly, but so does the Acronis 2010 on my wife's PC. Post back if you seem to find a solution.

[CWBillow]

I will...Thanks Ted.

Regards,
Chuck

[Roderunner]

Chuck, this is selected info from Acronis 2010 manual.
-
6.3.1 Backing up a system partition
It is recommended to back up the system partition when your C: disk consists of a single partition,
though in this case partition backup is equivalent to system disk backup. It is also makes sense to
back up the system partition if it contains all your applications and important data or if you do not
have enough free space for backing up the entire system disk. A system partition backup would be
most helpful when you need to recover the operating system corrupted by a virus, malware or, for
example, after Windows update installation. Recovery on a new hard disk drive is possible too,
though it may be a bit complicated in case you want to create more than one partition on the new
hard disk. Otherwise it is better to back up the entire system disk, especially if it has hidden recovery
or diagnostic partitions created by your computer's manufacturer. Furthermore, a system disk backup
is more convenient when recovering on a new disk. Backing up the system partition may also be
advisable when you like testing a lot of applications or games. Most applications cannot be
uninstalled without a trace, including Acronis True Image Home itself. You can make a basic system
partition backup containing your operating system and main applications like MS Office and Outlook.
Thereafter you will always be able to recover that basic system state after trying new programs – if
you don't like them or if something goes wrong.
-
The easiest way of backing up the system partition is using the One-Click Backup either during the
first start of Acronis True Image Home after installation or later. This tool is intended for backing up
only the system partition and MBR. Of course, you can use the Backup Wizard too, but here is the
procedure for using the One-Click Backup tool (not during the first start).
1. If you want to use your external drive for backing up the system partition, attach and power it on
before starting Acronis True Image Home.
Choose Tools & Utilities ? One-Click Backup in the main program menu. Acronis True Image Home
will offer the destination for storing your backup (if you do not have the Acronis Secure Zone, the
destination will be the attached external hard drive). If you would prefer another backup destination,
click the link under the Archive location: line and select the storage location most suitable for you.
1. By default the One-Click Backup tool schedules subsequent full backups of your system partition
once every seven days, but you can change the interval between backups or cancel scheduling.
2. After you finish settings, click Protect to start the backup task.
It is recommended to validate the created backup by running a validation task either manually or on
schedule.
-
11.2.2 Overwrite file options
This option is not applicable to recovery of disks and partitions from images.
By default, the program will overwrite existing files and folders, though more recent files and folders
are protected from overwriting.
You can set default filters for the specific types of files you wish to preserve during archive recovery.
For example, you may want hidden and system files and folders, newer files and folders, as well as
files matching selected criteria not to be overwritten by the archive files.
While specifying the criteria, you can use the common Windows wildcard characters. For example, to
preserve all files with extension .exe, add *.exe. My???.exe will preserve all .exe files with names
consisting of five symbols and starting with "my".
Unselecting the Overwrite existing files check box will give the files on the hard disk unconditional
priority over the archived files.

[CWBillow]

Chuck, this is selected info from Acronis 2010 manual.
-
6.3.1 Backing up a system partition
It is recommended to back up the system partition when your C: disk consists of a single partition,
though in this case partition backup is equivalent to system disk backup. It is also makes sense to
back up the system partition if it contains all your applications and important data or if you do not
have enough free space for backing up the entire system disk. A system partition backup would be
most helpful when you need to recover the operating system corrupted by a virus, malware or, for
example, after Windows update installation. Recovery on a new hard disk drive is possible too,
though it may be a bit complicated in case you want to create more than one partition on the new
hard disk. Otherwise it is better to back up the entire system disk, especially if it has hidden recovery
or diagnostic partitions created by your computer's manufacturer. Furthermore, a system disk backup
is more convenient when recovering on a new disk. Backing up the system partition may also be
advisable when you like testing a lot of applications or games. Most applications cannot be
uninstalled without a trace, including Acronis True Image Home itself. You can make a basic system
partition backup containing your operating system and main applications like MS Office and Outlook.
Thereafter you will always be able to recover that basic system state after trying new programs – if
you don't like them or if something goes wrong.
-
The easiest way of backing up the system partition is using the One-Click Backup either during the
first start of Acronis True Image Home after installation or later. This tool is intended for backing up
only the system partition and MBR. Of course, you can use the Backup Wizard too, but here is the
procedure for using the One-Click Backup tool (not during the first start).
1. If you want to use your external drive for backing up the system partition, attach and power it on
before starting Acronis True Image Home.
Choose Tools & Utilities ? One-Click Backup in the main program menu. Acronis True Image Home
will offer the destination for storing your backup (if you do not have the Acronis Secure Zone, the
destination will be the attached external hard drive). If you would prefer another backup destination,
click the link under the Archive location: line and select the storage location most suitable for you.
1. By default the One-Click Backup tool schedules subsequent full backups of your system partition
once every seven days, but you can change the interval between backups or cancel scheduling.
2. After you finish settings, click Protect to start the backup task.
It is recommended to validate the created backup by running a validation task either manually or on
schedule.
-
11.2.2 Overwrite file options
This option is not applicable to recovery of disks and partitions from images.
By default, the program will overwrite existing files and folders, though more recent files and folders
are protected from overwriting.
You can set default filters for the specific types of files you wish to preserve during archive recovery.
For example, you may want hidden and system files and folders, newer files and folders, as well as
files matching selected criteria not to be overwritten by the archive files.
While specifying the criteria, you can use the common Windows wildcard characters. For example, to
preserve all files with extension .exe, add *.exe. My???.exe will preserve all .exe files with names
consisting of five symbols and starting with "my".
Unselecting the Overwrite existing files check box will give the files on the hard disk unconditional
priority over the archived files.

RR:

Thanks for that, but I'm confused as to what I needed to see that I didn't already do.

It states

"11.2.2 Overwrite file options
This option is not applicable to recovery of disks and partitions from images."

This I knew, and it was a full disk backup and restore I was doing.

I only have Win-7 on the one platter, so I just back up the whole thing.

I must have just been having a meltdown, because otherwise, what happened was

I had a single partition drive on which I had my o/s and my programs and data files. To this disk, I restored a full disk image containing my o/s and programs -- NOT containing Open Office3.2.

After restoring OO 3.2 was on the platter.

Sounds crazy so I guess I must be.

I contacted the Acronis support, and got this from them:

"Was it a regular hard drive or an SSD? Some SSD drives have a bug in the firmware and changes don't get saved (in certain situations). This results in the "old" data returning even after restoring an image or doing a reinstall of Windows."

I guess this may apply to other drives as well -- or at least it certainly seems that way to me!

Regards,
Chuck

[Roderunner]

So I "started over": I deleted *everything*, and reinstalled Windows 7.
Chuck

Chuck, after starting over, you should have made a note stating, it was a clean install + the date, all updates done, with nothing added,
removed or changed WITH ONE EXCEPTION install Acronis. Then do a 'One Click Backup' to an ext. hdd. this gives you what Acronis describes as a Systembackup. Re read my post for a clearer interpretation. Keep the note beside the backup so as you know whats in it before using to recover your PC.
Any time I'm experimenting with something or another, I do a 1 click backup first, then I'm able to restore to if needed.
If I'm backing up a partition contaning data, I do it separately, meaning I can restore it without a reboot.

[CWBillow]

Chuck, after starting over, you should have made a note stating, it was a clean install + the date, all updates done, with nothing added,
removed or changed WITH ONE EXCEPTION install Acronis. Then do a 'One Click Backup' to an ext. hdd. this gives you what Acronis describes as a Systembackup. Re read my post for a clearer interpretation. Keep the note beside the backup so as you know whats in it before using to recover your PC.
Any time I'm experimenting with something or another, I do a 1 click backup first, then I'm able to restore to if needed.
If I'm backing up a partition contaning data, I do it separately, meaning I can restore it without a reboot.

RR:

After I installed "7", I did a backup of just the install and the hardware. Then I went from there.

Regards,
Chuck