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  1. #1
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    I've done a search with no real luck so I figured I'd ask here. What I want to do is simply determine what files are considered unmovable. Since I dual boot this is especially important as I'm afraid I may have accidentally placed a file within Windows that Windows can't handle due to things like the difference of naming conventions. I believe these files all get marked as unmovable. Any other idea's are of course welcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Norris View Post
    What I want to do is simply determine what files are considered unmovable. Since I dual boot this is especially important as I'm afraid I may have accidentally placed a file within Windows that Windows can't handle due to things like the difference of naming conventions.
    Gregory,
    Hello.... I have no idea what you mean as "unmovable" I have a machine that i "Quint boot " ...Each OS stays at it's respective place ( Hard drive or Partition ) Other than "personal" files or folders why would you want or need to move some "OS" file one HD or partition to the other ? Sure.... you can move or delete any file you want to ( if you have some tools ) However there will be consequences for doing so ...I know because i have deleted (or moved to recycle bin ) of what many would call OS "sacred cows" sometimes with a good outcome ... sometimes not, and a "recovery" is in order. Bottom line........
    1. Yes! you can move or delete anything ! ( if you have the tools and desire )
    2. It may not work out as you want.
    3. Please explain ... " difference in naming conventions"
    Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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    I do not know what you mean by "unmovable files". Perhaps if you described your dual-boot setup it would help. Usually, for a dual boot each OS is in a separate partition and each has its own set of files. For example, on my desktop I dual boot Win 7 and XP on two different disks. Each OS has its own Windows, Program Files and Documents and Settings (or Users) directory. While i am in one OS I never touch the files on the other OSes partition. All of my data is on another partition, and I share that between the two OSes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Johnson2191 View Post
    I do not know what you mean by "unmovable files". Perhaps if you described your dual-boot setup it would help. Usually, for a dual boot each OS is in a separate partition and each has its own set of files. For example, on my desktop I dual boot Win 7 and XP on two different disks. Each OS has its own Windows, Program Files and Documents and Settings (or Users) directory. While i am in one OS I never touch the files on the other OSes partition. All of my data is on another partition, and I share that between the two OSes.
    By unmovable I mean any files that can't be accessed by a defrag program or can't be accessed by Windows due to things like naming conventions. For instance I once tried placing a backup of some files from Ubuntu on a shared drive but, the files had a naming convention incompatible with Windows so when I tried to modify the files with Windows it simply failed to do anything with the files at all claiming things like the files didn't exist. I of course, realized why I couldn't do anything with the files and deleted them successfully using Ubuntu.

    As for my dual boot setup I have Windows in the first couple partitions (Windows Launcher, C) Then Ubuntu, followed by an extended partition with my shared data partition, and finally a Linux Swap Partition. You'll notice in my signature I've the basic information on my setup. As far as file sharing I only sharing I've set up is between mutual applications namely Thunderbird via (I believe) the profile manager, and uTorrent via Wine and a Symbolic link within Ubuntu pointing to my Windows Preferences for it, Finally Tomboy notes share notes using a symbolic link.
    Current Machine:HP Compaq 6910p with 4GB RAM, Core2Duo @ 2.20 GHz, Mobile Intel 965 Express Chipset Family, Avast free, Malwarebyte's free, TP-Link wireless card (as the built in card has nothing but problems with empty solutions): The card identifies as "Atheros AR922X Wireless Network Adapter". [Not the best machine but it does internet, docs, and vids, and some games (PvZ, Spore)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Norris View Post
    By unmovable I mean any files that can't be accessed by a defrag program or can't be accessed by Windows due to things like naming conventions. For instance I once tried placing a backup of some files from Ubuntu on a shared drive but, the files had a naming convention incompatible with Windows so when I tried to modify the files with Windows it simply failed to do anything with the files at all claiming things like the files didn't exist. I of course, realized why I couldn't do anything with the files and deleted them successfully using Ubuntu.

    As for my dual boot setup I have Windows in the first couple partitions (Windows Launcher, C) Then Ubuntu, followed by an extended partition with my shared data partition, and finally a Linux Swap Partition. You'll notice in my signature I've the basic information on my setup. As far as file sharing I only sharing I've set up is between mutual applications namely Thunderbird via (I believe) the profile manager, and uTorrent via Wine and a Symbolic link within Ubuntu pointing to my Windows Preferences for it, Finally Tomboy notes share notes using a symbolic link.
    Gregory,
    Hello... OK now im understanding.. what your saying .
    1. Linux is able to "see" windows drives.... NTFS files \ folders....but..... Windows can't "see" HD's .Ext2, 3, 4, files\folders . So for example ... when I'm running my Linux Mint 9 i can access my NTFS formatted Windows Data HD . However when I'm running Windows ... it doesn't see the Linux HD as anything but a blank connected HD. Am i on the right track ? Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    Gregory,
    Hello... OK now im understanding.. what your saying .
    1. Linux is able to "see" windows drives.... NTFS files \ folders....but..... Windows can't "see" HD's .Ext2, 3, 4, files\folders . So for example ... when I'm running my Linux Mint 9 i can access my NTFS formatted Windows Data HD . However when I'm running Windows ... it doesn't see the Linux HD as anything but a blank connected HD. Am i on the right track ? Regards Fred
    Somewhat, I'm talking more about file formats such as Capital letters, one OS treats file names that are the same except for capitalization as the same while the other treats them as separate files. Also Windows may not recognize a file with certain extensions. If one such file is on the NTFS partition windows uses like for instance a trash file (Since Windows and Linux handle them differently) and Windows tries to modify them it will usually fail to acknowledge said files exist while still showing them in explorer.
    Current Machine:HP Compaq 6910p with 4GB RAM, Core2Duo @ 2.20 GHz, Mobile Intel 965 Express Chipset Family, Avast free, Malwarebyte's free, TP-Link wireless card (as the built in card has nothing but problems with empty solutions): The card identifies as "Atheros AR922X Wireless Network Adapter". [Not the best machine but it does internet, docs, and vids, and some games (PvZ, Spore)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Norris View Post
    Somewhat, I'm talking more about file formats such as Capital letters, one OS treats file names that are the same except for capitalization as the same while the other treats them as separate files. Also Windows may not recognize a file with certain extensions. If one such file is on the NTFS partition windows uses like for instance a trash file (Since Windows and Linux handle them differently) and Windows tries to modify them it will usually fail to acknowledge said files exist while still showing them in explorer.
    Gregory ,
    Hello.... sorry i haven't a clue . All that i do know is that Linux through software " Wine" can run some Windows programs , but don't think that it works the other way around. Hopefully some who does know will answer your question . Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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    heya,

    Capitalization works in windows the same as in linux/ubuntu. It's more the type of partition that dis/enables this then the OS. Also file extensions are not 'hidden' by windows unless you have the explorer option turned on to hide system-protected files (or hidden files). Other then that, ANY file you place from ubuntu to a windows compatible partition (so fat/fat32/ntfs or that newer win7 exfat format) should be readable without a problem. The only thing that you might encounter is editing a text file in any linux might get you a file in windows without carriage returns (so it looks like 1 big line), but those are easily converted with the right tools.
    If all else fails, just make a separate fat32 partition (or say usb stick)... there's not much fooling around either windows or ubuntu can do with that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeroen Hensing View Post
    heya,

    Capitalization works in windows the same as in linux/ubuntu. It's more the type of partition that dis/enables this then the OS. Also file extensions are not 'hidden' by windows unless you have the explorer option turned on to hide system-protected files (or hidden files). Other then that, ANY file you place from ubuntu to a windows compatible partition (so fat/fat32/ntfs or that newer win7 exfat format) should be readable without a problem. The only thing that you might encounter is editing a text file in any linux might get you a file in windows without carriage returns (so it looks like 1 big line), but those are easily converted with the right tools.
    If all else fails, just make a separate fat32 partition (or say usb stick)... there's not much fooling around either windows or ubuntu can do with that...
    I believe all my partitions are NTFS except for the Ubuntu, SD Card, and Swap partitions. I happen to know for a fact that some files are not compatible be it because of the partition or the OS (though the OS does determine the primary File System). For instance the backup I mentioned earlier contained something that Windows/NTFS didn't like. Most likely it was a combination between an extra large number or periods in the file/folder names, folder/file names with a lot larger file names than usual (though I don't think that in itself is a big problem), and the shear number of directories (many programs won't work beyond a certain size of directory path-especially command line based programs).

    So that's it clear the big idea behind this thread was to:

    1.) deal with a problem with my Anti-Virus breaking (I thought maybe it was an incompatible file, turns out it was an un-erasable temp file (C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\ Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files"

    2.) Deal with any files my Defragger's may be missing (I use MyDefrag and the built in defrag via the command line-both use the same API but, MyDefrag add Optimization).

    Also, it seems the name of the thread was changed, I believe the original title was something about find unmovable files.


    Edited for clarity/spelling.
    Current Machine:HP Compaq 6910p with 4GB RAM, Core2Duo @ 2.20 GHz, Mobile Intel 965 Express Chipset Family, Avast free, Malwarebyte's free, TP-Link wireless card (as the built in card has nothing but problems with empty solutions): The card identifies as "Atheros AR922X Wireless Network Adapter". [Not the best machine but it does internet, docs, and vids, and some games (PvZ, Spore)]

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    You really should not waste time and posts with generalities.

    Windows with always consider to be in use the path
    C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\M icrosoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\

    CCleaner will mark for deletion on reboot, which removes it and what it contains, but as Windows starts up it will rebuild it again and hold it in use.

    Defraggers find many files locked when running under Windows.
    Many defraggers overcome this by the option to Defrag on Boot - i.e. before Windows puts things into use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan98 View Post
    You really should not waste time and posts with generalities.

    Windows with always consider to be in use the path
    C:\Windows\System32\config\systemprofile\AppData\M icrosoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\

    CCleaner will mark for deletion on reboot, which removes it and what it contains, but as Windows starts up it will rebuild it again and hold it in use.

    Defraggers find many files locked when running under Windows.
    Many defraggers overcome this by the option to Defrag on Boot - i.e. before Windows puts things into use.
    The defragger I use doesn't have said option but, it does use the Windows API and adds optimization which makes me feel very safe with it. The files I want to be able to move are mostly non-standard unmovable files. Things that were created by another program or OS that don't quite comply with the FS or OS. OpenOffice (which I've not installed on this particular system) is one such program that will create file names on NTFS that NTFS doesn't really like (files with names like fdsfdsaf.fdsafdsafereafvsgh..gfjajlfjsdjglerjalg.f jeoajlfdjaoejdil [obviously this isn't an actual filename] which have so many extensions and are so long that you can't manipulate them with explorer). The risk with defragging before booting is that when Windows boots it actually looks for certain physical locations of certain files before searching for files that could be moved, obviously I don't want to touch any such files, especially since unlike UNIX systems if something like that breaks it's almost impossible to fix it on Windows. UNIX systems I can just use the grub commands that are hosted differently and have it recognize a new root and rebuild any such files and recognize where they've been moved to (I once had a problem like this caused by changing partition sizes).

    Also, CCleaner has never marked anything for deletion on reboot to my knowledge. Otherwise when I rebooted before, the temporary files would have been deleted and I wouldn't have had to search for the Answers for such a horribly long time. By the way in case I didn't mention it in an earlier post, I switched to Ubuntu to delete those files and yes, Windows did rebuild them but, it they were no longer versions that were causing issues.
    Current Machine:HP Compaq 6910p with 4GB RAM, Core2Duo @ 2.20 GHz, Mobile Intel 965 Express Chipset Family, Avast free, Malwarebyte's free, TP-Link wireless card (as the built in card has nothing but problems with empty solutions): The card identifies as "Atheros AR922X Wireless Network Adapter". [Not the best machine but it does internet, docs, and vids, and some games (PvZ, Spore)]

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    I disagree, NTFS loves fdsfdsaf.fdsafdsafereafvsgh..gfjajlfjsdjglerjalg.f jeoajlfdjaoejdil

    SShot-195.gif shows that DOS under XP in NTFS created a file using you stipulated file name which contained a time stamp.
    [attachment=90230:sshot-195.gif]
    I then aimed Windows explorer at C:\Documents and Settings\Dad\## and saw the file
    [attachment=90232:sshot-196.gif]
    I then selected the file in Windows Explorer and told it to open with Notepad.exe, which it was able to do.
    I see no evidence that NTFS has any problem with fdsfdsaf.fdsafdsafereafvsgh..gfjajlfjsdjglerjalg.f jeoajlfdjaoejdil

    I disagree, CCleaner DOES Mark for Deletion files that cannot be deleted whilst Windows is running, see SShot-194
    [attachment=90231:sshot-194.gif]
    I believe CCleaner uses a facility built into Windows for when these things need deleting.

    I now use the freeware Puran Defrag.
    I like it because :-
    It is free,
    It is VERY small at only 3 MB
    It is VERY fast - it only took 11 seconds to Analyse C:\ and show me 900 fragments, 90% of which were in Firefox profiles.
    It has no problem working around files which Windows is holding IN USE and are unmoveable;
    It has a Boot mode that moves the unmoveable.

    Alan
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    Another option is to use a WinPE boot disk with your favorite defrag tool. there are tons of bootable utility disks that do a fine defrag job too.

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    In response to Alan98:

    The file name I gave was a random example and not an actual file I worked with but, I have had issues before with files that have extremely long names and multiple periods in them. Chances are the files become corrupt over times because Windows doesn't know how to deal with an extension of type .fdjlodfdskjl which obviously has no meaning whatsoever. It's also possible that the problem's I've noticed have to deal with the programs that create these files but, nonetheless I've ran into such issues on Win95, XP, Vista, and 7. (I didn't get much chance to play with 2000)

    As for the marking for deletion. Is this before clicking Run Cleaner. It says marked for deletion in that version before actually running the cleaner then as best I can tell it actually deletes the files (or tries to) when you click Run Cleaner. The problem I mentioned before would have otherwise been dealt with by CCleaner. As for my settings in CCleaner it's currently version 2.36.1233 and under Applications I have everything but, Firefox Session marked, under Windows everything except: Thumbnail cache (previous selected but, I decided to turn it off since I've been watching more vids lately), Taskbar Jumplist, FTP Accounts (I shouldn't have any anyways), Start Menu Shortcuts, Desktop Shortcuts, and wipe free space (I only use wipe free space if something was only partially deleted for one reason of another). Everything under Registry is checked, Secure delete (either 1 pass or Nod (3 passes), Don't keep any cookies, Include the Trash-1000 folders on every drive (Ubuntu's version of the recycling bin). I did just realize that I had it set to only delete Windows Temp files older than 24 hours which may explain why it didn't touch those (in which case I apologize for that aspect). I also save everything to an .INI so I can keep my registry clean and more easily back up CCleaner's settings.

    Directed at both Alan98 and TheGadgetFixer:

    Also, I believe I may have mentioned it before but, I don't tend to trust defraggers to run before windows starts because of the risk of moving files windows looks for by physical location (It's my understanding that when an OS boots from the hard drive it has a certain amount of data it has to load from physical addresses before it can search the hard drive the normal way). Also my Defragger uses the Windows API which makes me feel a bit safer about it. Basically it defrags the same way Windows does except it also optimizes data for quicker read speeds.
    Current Machine:HP Compaq 6910p with 4GB RAM, Core2Duo @ 2.20 GHz, Mobile Intel 965 Express Chipset Family, Avast free, Malwarebyte's free, TP-Link wireless card (as the built in card has nothing but problems with empty solutions): The card identifies as "Atheros AR922X Wireless Network Adapter". [Not the best machine but it does internet, docs, and vids, and some games (PvZ, Spore)]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Norris View Post
    In response to Alan98:

    Chances are the files become corrupt over times because Windows doesn't know how to deal with an extension of type .fdjlodfdskjl which obviously has no meaning whatsoever.
    I think you are wrong.

    I have already demonstrated that I (and also XP) have no difficulty deleting a file with the extension .fdjlodfdskjl
    Life is too short to demonstrate any further errors in your understanding,
    but although I agree with you that Windows by DEFAULT is totally ignorant of how to deal with many extensions, of which your .fdjlodfdskjl is an example,
    I have always found that if I select such a file and right click the context menu will allow me to choose to Open With,
    and it allows me to select varies possible options such as Notepad, and there is the choice to browse my system for anything else,
    AND there is a a check-box which allows me to stipulate that Windows must remember this as part of its set of defaults,
    in which case the next time this extension is clicked Windows WILL know how to deal with it.

    As for the marking for deletion. Is this before clicking Run Cleaner. It says marked for deletion in that version before actually running the cleaner
    Yes, exactly, this is the Analysis phase

    then as best I can tell it actually deletes the files (or tries to) when you click Run Cleaner.
    No, wrong.
    It fails to remind you that it is marked for deletion. You have already been told (although it did not spell it out in precise detail) that it WILL be deleted.

    If you analyze again it will refrain from commenting about the items already marked for deletion, no further cleaning action is needed.

    Secure delete (either 1 pass or Nod (3 passes)
    WARNING - I have seen two complaints where important files were lost and I believe Secure Deletion is implicated.

    Some paths are the correct "native" routes to files.
    Some paths are wrong but W7 etc accommodates via reparse points which intercept and redirect to the native route.
    You can read a file by the native route, and also via the reparse point.
    You may think you have multiple and different folders each containing independent copies of the same files,
    but if you delete one you delete all the other copies you thought you had.

    W7 etc. protect against an accidental deletion via a reparse point,
    but Secure Deletion is NOT deletion but DESTRUCTION by overwriting, and you can write via a reparse point even though you cannot delete via it.

    Directed at both Alan98 and TheGadgetFixer:

    Also, I believe I may have mentioned it before but, I don't tend to trust defraggers to run before windows starts because of the risk of moving files windows looks for by physical location (It's my understanding that when an OS boots from the hard drive it has a certain amount of data it has to load from physical addresses before it can search the hard drive the normal way). Also my Defragger uses the Windows API which makes me feel a bit safer about it. Basically it defrags the same way Windows does except it also optimizes data for quicker read speeds.
    My experience with Dual Boot via EasyBCD is that immediately after BIOS has finished, then EasyBCD and the Vista whatsit go to the first partition and use the file system to find the \BOOT folder to present the menu that gives me choice of which O.S. I wish to run.
    I am NOT aware that the chosen OS is expected to access a fixed track/sector.

    My experience of Acronis is that it has options to capture an image of all bits within a partition or only the file clusters that are in use.
    I only ever use the used cluster option.
    My drive C:\ develops gaps when files are deleted.
    If Acronis captures an image with lots a gaps, and lots of fragmented files,
    Acronis can then restore that image and all the gaps are gone and all the files are free of fragments.
    Acronis allows a free choice of whether I want to place the restored partition at the extreme edge of the Hard drive,
    or whether to leave some spare tracks at the beginning,
    AND STILL the image can boot - I have never seen evidence that Windows requires any particular item to boot up.
    I guess one of us is wrong.

    Perhaps you are confused with the MBR which is required for booting.
    Acronis does allow the option to restore the MBR, but does NOT allow you to choose spare tracks in front of it.

    I very much doubt that any defragger would relocate the MBR, and if it did then you are in a different world of hurt.

    I am happy to continue with Puran and Boot defrag, and you are free to choose.

    Most defraggers that I am aware of use the Windows API.

    Alan

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