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  1. #1
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    Last night, having run the Secunia Online Software Inspector to check for missing updates and being told I had missing Microsoft patches, I ran Windows Update and downloaded the latest patches for my machine (there were 3 for Office 2003 and 6 for Windows). The image below shows which patches I was installing

    [attachment=90005:WindowsProblemPatches.jpg]

    Having installed the patches I then rebooted as requested to find that my desktop settings had changed - the taskbar was a light grey and the side bar had become solid instead of transparent. Fortunately running system restore corrected the problem. However, I have yet to identify which patch caused the problem and am just posting here as a "heads up" in case others experience the same problem and, perhaps, have already identified the cause
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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Bennington View Post
    Having installed the patches I then rebooted as requested to find that my desktop settings had changed - the taskbar was a light grey and the side bar had become solid instead of transparent. Fortunately running system restore corrected the problem. However, I have yet to identify which patch caused the problem
    Paul,
    Hello,.... and welcome ... Hold on as i have to put my helmet back on .....cause I'm gonna take another "woopin " for replying to this ....again , but the "truth need be told" As i don't know your "security" for you OS i will only address the OS part
    1.Question .... If your OS is working what are you hoping to gain, (by patching ) more than "everything is working" ?
    2.Fact .... if your OS is A-OK ...it only has but one direction to go , doing the "patches to patch patches thing".... south.
    3. My paradigm is more severe but i will tell you that i have a Vista Home Premium OS that does not have even one "patch or update" as an experiment for almost 12 or 13 months...... NO PROBLEMS !!!!! ( provide my own security )
    4. Do what you wish but once your system is working ...."don't shoot yourself in the foot" and get off the "patch merry-go round"
    5. I'm not talking "Security" although i don't use any MS stuff (now ) on any of my systems....another topic. Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  4. #3
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    I apply patches because they supposedly plug holes in my system as documented frequently in the Window Secrets newsletter. As for security, I use Spybot S&D, AVG Anti-Virus and Adaware. I have the Windows firewall switched on

  5. #4
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    It looks as though KB2141007 may have been the culprit. I updated 3 three Office patches, the Junk E-mail Filter patch and the Software Removal tool patch together, and then did each of the Security patches one at a time (rebooting as and when requested) and had no problems. That left KB2141007 which, when I did a Google search, had given other users problems with desktop settings. However, I installed this patch all by itself and it went through okay so maybe this is a solution. I know what I did isn't conclusive but it may help others if they encountered similar problems

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Bennington View Post
    It looks as though KB2141007 may have been the culprit. I updated 3 three Office patches, the Junk E-mail Filter patch and the Software Removal tool patch together, and then did each of the Security patches one at a time (rebooting as and when requested) and had no problems. That left KB2141007 which, when I did a Google search, had given other users problems with desktop settings. However, I installed this patch all by itself and it went through okay so maybe this is a solution. I know what I did isn't conclusive but it may help others if they encountered similar problems
    Paul,
    Hello, and thank you for your information ,I'm sure there are many scratching their heads trying to figure out what went wrong with their "PC's . ..As for patching to "plug holes" you misunderstand what I'm trying to say ( my fault ) Not talking about "security patches" ...(different subject ) I'm saying if you "OS" is working with all programs aboard ....and all is well ...and working without strange behavior's , BSOD's , unexplained anomalies .etc. Then i ask again .... What will a "patch" do for you? only three answers...possible ( you can't improve on "everything is working" )
    1. Nothing...( best outcome )
    2. Do something that "hoses" some program or programs.
    3. Some "combo" of one and two.
    I ask this question over and over and have never been supplied with any kind of logical answer....other than Microsoft says its "important"
    Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

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    Well, I have to interject something here.

    1.Question .... If your OS is working what are you hoping to gain, (by patching ) more than "everything is working" ?
    Answer...That it does not fail when I'm in the middle of something important. A weakness is mitigated whereby I could've let something onto my system without realizing it. Would you not take a car in for a recall just because "everything is working"?

    2.Fact .... if your OS is A-OK ...it only has but one direction to go , doing the "patches to patch patches thing".... south.
    Fact... There are many millions if not hundreds of millions of systems that routinely have patches applied without any issues. Of the several dozen systems that I "watch over" I routinely apply patches and have had one problem in the last 7 or 8 years. These are a variety of dekstops, notebooks, & servers with hardly any having the same hardware/software configuration.

    3. My paradigm is more severe but i will tell you that i have a Vista Home Premium OS that does not have even one "patch or update" as an experiment for almost 12 or 13 months...... NO PROBLEMS !!!!! ( provide my own security ).
    Question...How often have you restored these systems since you have taken this approach? Have you tried to diagnose what the issue was that caused you to have to restore? How do you know that one of the patches you've refused to install would've have gotten around the problem that caused a restore?

    5. I'm not talking "Security" although i don't use any MS stuff (now ) on any of my systems....
    Question...Do you patch security software? Are these vendors are any more reliable than Microsoft? There have been many instances of various security patches hosing systems.

    Joe

  8. #7
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    I disagree when you say that you cannot improve on "everything is working" - it can be improved if the patch ensures that not only does it work but continues to work in the future and, to pick up on JoeP's point, does not fail in the middle of some important work. Just because a problem hasn't been experienced up to now, it does not mean to say that it won't at some point in the future so patches can increase the stability of a product. To say that a patch can only do nothing and/or hose part of your system seems to be a ridiculous statement to me. The "do nothing" that you allude to might be that it appears to do nothing because your system continues to work as it did before, while in the background the patch has prevented a software failure that might otherwise have occurred.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
    Well, I have to interject something here.

    1.Question .... If your OS is working what are you hoping to gain, (by patching ) more than "everything is working" ?
    Answer...That it does not fail when I'm in the middle of something important. A weakness is mitigated whereby I could've let something onto my system without realizing it. Would you not take a car in for a recall just because "everything is working"?

    2.Fact .... if your OS is A-OK ...it only has but one direction to go , doing the "patches to patch patches thing".... south.
    Fact... There are many millions if not hundreds of millions of systems that routinely have patches applied without any issues. Of the several dozen systems that I "watch over" I routinely apply patches and have had one problem in the last 7 or 8 years. These are a variety of dekstops, notebooks, & servers with hardly any having the same hardware/software configuration.

    3. My paradigm is more severe but i will tell you that i have a Vista Home Premium OS that does not have even one "patch or update" as an experiment for almost 12 or 13 months...... NO PROBLEMS !!!!! ( provide my own security ).
    Question...How often have you restored these systems since you have taken this approach? Have you tried to diagnose what the issue was that caused you to have to restore? How do you know that one of the patches you've refused to install would've have gotten around the problem that caused a restore?

    5. I'm not talking "Security" although i don't use any MS stuff (now ) on any of my systems....
    Question...Do you patch security software? Are these vendors are any more reliable than Microsoft? There have been many instances of various security patches hosing systems.

    Joe
    Joe , Paul,
    Hello... Here we go again... but i accept your challenge... In answering your responses.....

    1. I can only go by my personal PC experience. I have never had a program stop working while it was running ( backups, cloning, ...defrags etc... On the other side i had have things not work (or work properly ) after applying patches.I stand by my statement ... You can't improve a system that "everything is working" To say that patches will improve and protect you from future crashes ??? how and what do you base that on?... sounds like wishful thinking to me. (or "MS" hyperbole )

    2. All you have to do is read this forum (or others ) to see posts about something or other not working ....After patching.

    3. On my Vista experimental machine ( SP-0 ) i have NEVER had to do a restore\ recovery because of something that stopped working (all on it's own, yeah that happens in real life.... ) The only time that i had to do a recovery is because of something that i have done, like trying to "improve" the OS by deleting something that "hoses" the "OS". Since applying this strategy to my "7" machine ...so far so good.... I'll let you know 12 or 13 months from now.

    4. The " Security Question" I have complete confidence in now "Norton Internet Security 2011" having trusted all my OS's to Norton 360 and Malwarebytes since my Vista SP-0 Experiment began...... NEVER using any MS security... no not one update or patch . And to answer you question ... yes they do patch themselves ..and do so every few minutes ( not once a month like "MS" ) And they don't add 7GB of nonsense patches and updates ( comparing Vista SP-0 to Vista SP-2 all patches and updates) Programs essentially the same.

    5. Yes you are correct in that some 3rd party " cheese ball security programs " "hose " your OS.... but not mine......so far

    Well once again we will agree to disagree... beginning to feel like "Siskal " and "Ebert" Regards Fred

    PS: Paul How can you say that you "Agree" ...It was you who had you OS "toasted by applying a "Patch" in the first place.?!.... With your logic it shouldn't have happened, because ....you have "applied" "patches" before thereby "protecting" you from "future Problems".... go figure Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    PS: Paul How can you say that you "Agree" ...It was you who had you OS "toasted by applying a "Patch" in the first place.?!.... With your logic it shouldn't have happened, because ....you have "applied" "patches" before thereby "protecting" you from "future Problems".... go figure Regards Fred
    I was just rereading this thread and saw that the last reply had been edited and thought I would respond to the part quoted above.

    I can't see where I have used the word "agree" or said that patches protect from future problems! What I was saying was that a patch can stop you experiencing a problem that you haven't yet come across. A patch should do what it sets out to do. In the case of the patch that gave me problems this obviously wasn't the case as there were bad side effects from the patch. I said that a patch can ensure that a system continue working, not that it will ensure this. I also said that patches can increase the stability of a system, not "will". Nowhere have I said that applying a patch will protect me from future patches causing problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Bennington View Post
    I was just rereading this thread and saw that the last reply had been edited and thought I would respond to the part quoted above.

    I can't see where I have used the word "agree" or said that patches protect from future problems! What I was saying was that a patch can stop you experiencing a problem that you haven't yet come across. A patch should do what it sets out to do. In the case of the patch that gave me problems this obviously wasn't the case as there were bad side effects from the patch. I said that a patch can ensure that a system continue working, not that it will ensure this. I also said that patches can increase the stability of a system, not "will". Nowhere have I said that applying a patch will protect me from future patches causing problems.
    Paul ,
    Hello , and true enough you didn't use "Agree" .... but you agreed with Joe and most of his points. .... your splitting hairs ... the fact still stands. you can't improve on "everything is working " To believe that the application of a "patch"is going to somehow make things better "in the future" is unprovable, (remember were not talking security ) and in fact usually the exact opposite. I have facts and an "OS" on my side, running for about a year ( no patches or updates ) all you have is hope, and wishful thinking. Regards Fred
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Bennington View Post
    Last night, having run the Secunia Online Software Inspector to check for missing updates and being told I had missing Microsoft patches, I ran Windows Update and downloaded the latest patches for my machine (there were 3 for Office 2003 and 6 for Windows). The image below shows which patches I was installing

    [attachment=90005:WindowsProblemPatches.jpg]

    Having installed the patches I then rebooted as requested to find that my desktop settings had changed - the taskbar was a light grey and the side bar had become solid instead of transparent. Fortunately running system restore corrected the problem. However, I have yet to identify which patch caused the problem and am just posting here as a "heads up" in case others experience the same problem and, perhaps, have already identified the cause
    some security patches or microsoft software patch cause uncertain issues sometimes caused by softwares installed, so before applying patches make sure to read through the microsoft knowledge base article they have some workarounds or infos regarding this. enjoy

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    I must disagree with Fred when he says that one "can't improve on 'everything is working'." My Vista system has always worked. I never had any problems or complaints with it. But I have to say that, as a result of keeping up with patches and updates, it is now working better than ever. The biggest revelation was SP2. After applying that service pack, I realized that there had been lots of little glitches, each one barely noticable in itself, that had gone away, and the result was a much more streamlined system.

    Fafner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fafner View Post
    I must disagree with Fred when he says that one "can't improve on 'everything is working'." My Vista system has always worked. I never had any problems or complaints with it. But I have to say that, as a result of keeping up with patches and updates, it is now working better than ever. The biggest revelation was SP2. After applying that service pack, I realized that there had been lots of little glitches, each one barely noticable in itself, that had gone away, and the result was a much more streamlined system.

    Fafner
    Fafner,
    Hello, and thank you for you response.I realize that because of the many hardware \ software "combos" everyone's experience will be somewhat different .However.... in response to your comments .......

    1. the comment "everything is working " means just that ...... no unexplained "quirky behavior " Ex: Freeze ups, "program not responding" "blue screens " etc. So if your OS was "quirky to start with" you have observed an improvement.Therefore you have attributed this to applying "patches" Question : have you ever tried "running" your OS ( with all programs aboard ) with no patches or updates installed ?.....I have...

    2. "Streamlined system " ???? you must be joking. In my experiment i have two almost identical OS's ( Vista Home Premium ) one SP-0 all programs aboard and not one patch or update..... the other ( same machine ) SP-2 all programs essentially the same with all patches and updates (to date) do the math (see attachment ). "patches and updates" = "bloat city"

    3. Between the two systems i can say that SP-2 exhibits some "quirky traits" SP-0 has none , therefore...."everything is working" and you CANT improve on that!
    Regards Fred
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    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

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