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  1. #1
    Gold Lounger
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    Hello all,
    Just a "heads up" Macrium Reflect http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp is out with a new version 4.2.2952.0 9 (old 4.2.2866) also will update when you run the old version (about 7MBs) Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  2. #2
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    Hi Fred and Group.

    I have been backing up my HD for about thirty years, and setting up backup schemes for persons, Banks, Corporations, and if anyone knows the real benefit of having a true image of their C: drive 'in the can' (as they say in Hollywood), it's me.

    So to keep up with the industry, so to speak, I test every new program that comes down the pike.
    Details escape me, but when I tested Macrium Reflect I found something that it wouldn't do, that immediately put it in the bit bucket.
    One thing I look for, with any backup program, is that it will make a full featured CD that will boot the system and perform all the necessary functions of a Backup and Restore program.

    By the way, Acronis True Image does fill the bill. The first time I tried it, booting from the recovery CD, it backed up and then restored a Vista HD.
    You can get ATI, FREE, from Seagate or Maxtor, and maybe from other sources.
    You should never need to BUY it.

    I have Ghost 11.5 on a bootable Flash Drive and CD and it will (reliably) backup and restore any Microsoft OS from DOS to Windows 7, Ultimate 64.
    I equate changing backup programs to changing planes......at 30,000 feet.

    With my Ghost 11.5, I can restore any backup I've made for the past umpteen years. And with Ghost Explorer 11.5, I can extract any file or folder from any of those old backups.

    Without your backup/restore program on a bootable media, you're lost in case of a HD crash.

    Cheers Mates!
    Doc
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Deadeye81's Avatar
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    Hi Dr. Who,

    Although Macrium Reflect Free does not provide the ability to boot from a CD to perform a backup, it does provide for creation of a bootable CD that will restore a MR backup. I had a laptop I installed XP Pro on that I used about a year before selling it to a friend. Before turning it over to my friend, I restored the Vista image I made prior to XP (Strange, but true: friends don't sell friends Vista!) by using the MR bootable CD, and it overwrote XP and restored everything just fine.

    I do wish I could boot from the CD and perform a backup as can be done with TI.
    Deadeye81

    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give." Sir Winston Churchill

  4. #4
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Shepard View Post
    I do wish I could boot from the CD and perform a backup as can be done with TI.
    Gerald,
    Hello, Just curious.... I use Acronis 2010 v7046, and just for fun I'll make an Image or two with "Macrium Free" ( just to try) . I have done "hundreds" ( and can't count the recoveries ) of "Images", and have never had the need or desire to perform a "backup" using the TI boot disk. I have used the boot disk to do "recoveries" many times , Or the TI recovery manager to access the program , but whats the need to do an Image (or anything else) from the boot disk ? If your system is working you can perform or access any function from within Windows itself.Conversely if it isn't, what good would it be to make an image from an un-bootable or "toasted" OS? Probably I'm just missing some puzzle piece . Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Deadeye81's Avatar
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    Hi Fred,

    You are exactly correct in your thinking. The Acronis edition I used in the past was, I believe, version 11. With that version, (and possibly with earlier versions?), I was able to install Acronis on one computer, burn the CD, and perform both an image backup/restore from the bootable CD. The advantage in that capability was that I used the bootable CD to backup another three computers without having to install Acronis on them (I was a bad boy then ). It was slower than a tadpole swimming in mud, but it got the job done.

    I purchased ATI 2010 during the $9.99 special, and have it installed on one PC. I only do imaging on that PC with Acronis. I would have to purchase several licenses of ATI, and that is why I switched to Macrium Reflect. If MR had that capability, I would only have to install MR on one computer, and use the bootable CD on the others. Good way to save disk space and hard drive clutter.
    Deadeye81

    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give." Sir Winston Churchill

  6. #6
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    With a reliable Backup/restore program on CD or Flash Drive, you can boot any system even if the OS on that PC is totally hosed and back it up to preserve all the data on the drive. (like, before doing a clean re-install of the OS)
    Or you could back up a storage drive, like to clone it to another drive, even if the drive has NO OS on it at all.
    Or just back it up to DVD's for archival purposes.

    If you got the program for FREE and you didn't buy a license for it, then you're not obligated to honor the ULA that you didn't agree to anyway.
    Just a fine part of legality. FREE is FREE, for one PC or ten.

    When you get ATI from Seagate, for instance, for FREE, all they ask is that you have at least ONE Seagate drive on your computer.
    Got Seagate? They want you to use their program. Likewise with Maxtor.
    They make no demands, real or implied as to how many times you can install the program. They really DO want you to use it.

    Oh well, I'll never tell anyone what they have to use, but for Goodness Sake, use something!
    When I set up a new HD with any OS, I tweak it and tune it for maximum efficiency, and then install all my standard software package, set up my email and internet connections and when I've got it the way I want it, I make a backup. I also verify its integrity before I ever leave the program. Usually that program is Ghost 11.5. It's the last Ghost written that boots in DOS, runs in DOS and works with any OS from MS.
    I even have it on a bootable SD Flash Memory Card (like my Kodak camera uses).

    My software guru tells me that Ghost will also back up a Linux drive. I've not personally verified that.
    I doubt you could install MR or ATI in Linux.

    Oh well, before I get too far off topic, I'm outta hear!

    Cheers Mates!
    The Doctor
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  7. #7
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    but whats the need to do an Image (or anything else) from the boot disk ?
    Fred,

    I always! make my images from the Acronis Boot Disk. This eliminates the whole shadow copy windows thing for files in use by the system. Windows is out of the way and can't interfere with the imaging process with things like automatic updates or virus scans, etc. Also, I just feel better about doing it this way.

    Regards
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredGeek View Post
    Fred,

    I always! make my images from the Acronis Boot Disk. This eliminates the whole shadow copy windows thing for files in use by the system. Windows is out of the way and can't interfere with the imaging process with things like automatic updates or virus scans, etc. Also, I just feel better about doing it this way.

    Regards
    Hi "Geekster"
    I guess i don't understand the whole "shadow copy thing" ... But i do understand that windows would be out of the way.. Thanks for the reply... Best Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  9. #9
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fred J Usack View Post
    Hi "Geekster"
    I guess i don't understand the whole "shadow copy thing" ...
    Fred,

    Maybe this will help.

    Regards.
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

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  10. #10
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredGeek View Post
    Fred,

    Maybe this will help.

    Regards.
    Hello "Geekster"
    Thank you .... but alas after reading the link, I'm still confused as ever. May you can help with a simple explanation. Questions:
    1. If Vss creates a "shadow copy" ...where is it and how do you access it ?
    2. If you do not use "system restore" (recovery points ) mine is set to off... does it still create a "shadow copy" ?
    3. Is it only used for some "internal MS" use ?... not really for us "end users"
    Thanks again for the link I'm going to do a re-read .... again... and try to "fire up" that one brain cell
    Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  11. #11
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Fred,

    To the best of my limited understanding the 'Shadow Copy" is not for user access. It is merely a copy of a system file (currently in use) that can be accessed by other programs (e.g. backup programs) that could other wise not access (use) a file that is currently in use by the OS.
    I hope this helps. If it does please explain to me what I just said.

    Regards
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
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  12. #12
    Super Moderator Deadeye81's Avatar
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    Hi Fred,

    The "Shadow Copy" service enables one to perform a complete and accurate image backup of a partition/Volume from within that partition/Volume including the files that are currently in use by the operating system. This happens invisibly to the user. If there were no such service, accurate image backups are best done via a bootable CD/DVD so every file could be safely included in the image.

    Here is a quote from this MS Technet article: "A backup set created without a shadow copy would not contain all files open exclusively at the time of the backup. Files held open at the time of the backup operation are excluded from the backup."

    Here is good article on Shadow Copy & System Restore. I enjoyed it because it is easier to read and understand than some.

    Disabling the Volume Shadow Copy service will turn off System Restore, but turning off System Restore will not disable the Volume Shadow Copy service. The Volume Shadow Copy service will still run and you can do image backups from within Windows.
    Deadeye81

    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give." Sir Winston Churchill

  13. #13
    5 Star Lounger
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    Gerald,

    That second link is gold. Too bad I can only give you one thumb for finding that one.....

    It does not really answer the question of how Macrium and other such backup programs use vss but does show how vss itself works and points out some of the security issues with it.

  14. #14
    Super Moderator Deadeye81's Avatar
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    Hi MercyH,

    Thank you. I am glad you liked the article. I hope we will be able to find one that addresses how Macrium and others actually use vss in the same clear, understandable way.

    Maybe someone else has found one!
    Deadeye81

    "We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give." Sir Winston Churchill

  15. #15
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald Shepard View Post
    Hi MercyH,

    Thank you. I am glad you liked the article. I hope we will be able to find one that addresses how Macrium and others actually use vss in the same clear, understandable way.

    Maybe someone else has found one!
    Gerald,
    Hello ... yes that is an article worth bookmarking for future reference... I'm going to try an experiment switching off "Vss" and trying to run Acronis and see what shakes out ( to an Image first ) I'll post back ...that is if i can still "boot her up"
    Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

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