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    Bulleted/numbered lists

    In 2003 pressing Tab when in a list would display the next level number or bullet. Shift Tab would move back a level. Looked at Compatability list in 2007 and can't get this feature to work nohow
    Any help please. Looked at the very helpful links posted on the changeover, but no advice available.

    Mike Mullett
    Reading UK

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    Mike,

    You can still do something like this in Word 2007, but not (as far as I know) with the convenience of 'Tab/Shift Tab': If you set the bullet or numbered list as a multilevel list, and associate a defined paragraph style with each level of the list (and make sure each respective style in the list is assigned as Level 1, Level 2, Level 3 etc. in its style properties), you can then promote/demote items in the list with either the Promote/Demote or Promote List/Demote List commands - any of which can be retrieved from 'All Commands' and put on the QAT.

    [Addendum: If you set the list up as described above, you can then also use the Decrease Indent and Increase Indent buttons that are on the Ribbon by default, to do the promote/demote.]

    Gary
    Last edited by Gary Frieder; 2011-02-05 at 18:38. Reason: Addendum

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    Thanks Gary - will experiment. By the way, what's a QAT?

    Mike

    Edit: Solved it - Quick Action Toolbar
    Last edited by mikemullett; 2011-02-06 at 03:33.

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    If your tab and shift tab aren't working, go to Word Options>Proofing>AutoCorrect Options>Format as you Type and select (at the bottom) Set left- and first-indent with tabs and backspaces.

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    Leanne

    A lot of people have similar problems. Somewhere along the line they do something, get an unexpected autocorrect, and in the context dialog tell Word to stop doing that. Later they regret it, or I try to explain how to do something and their mileage varies.

    Do you know if there a quick and easy way to put ALL those settings back to default? (some people don't know what the default was!). I used to just delete normal.dot, or even the Word registry key as well, but those things are a little drastic!

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    You can also use alt+shift+right(or left) arrow to promote/demote the indentation.

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    Iansavell

    I don't know if this is a quick and easy way to save everything back. I work in numbered levels often and if I press tab and the number/level doesn't advance (and just puts in a tab), I know it some how quit working. Because of that, I added "AutoFormat as You Type" (from All Commands) to my QAT. It's one click to access to change rather than going through Word Options>Proofing, etc.

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    Formatting long Word documents with multi-level numbered Headings under the Styles options has always been buggy and appears to have taken on a much more mysterious character within Word2007/2010.
    1.0
    1.1
    1.2
    1.2.1
    1.2.2
    1.3
    1.3.1
    1.3.1.1
    1.3.1.2
    1.3.2
    2.0
    ...
    The only way I can achieve such a nested numbering system is to open a customized older Word2003 template (*.dot) and then use the Format Painter between the two documents. I have tried merging Styles/Formats, I have tried opening the older *.dot template to use as baseline but no matter what happens, Word just does not like me or this sequential numbering style that has served me for so many years. Using this old feature to create automatically update-able TableOfContents (with hyperlinks that are click-able to directly navigate to the sections of the document) used to be a simple pleasure in large documents.
    Bum!

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    I did look into multi-level numbering a few years ago. The problem lies in the "list gallery" within Word. This was introduced somewhere around Office 95 and is fundamentally broken. In a proper word processor (like Word 6, or WordPerfect) you would define heading numbering within the paragraph style and things would just work. With the List Gallery numbering is defined in the list style and linked to the paragraph style.

    Problems begin with the apparently innocent toolbar buttons for add/remove numbers, add/remove bullets, indent and outdent. These don't do what they seem to, in stead they run macros linked into the List Gallery. All is well if the List Gallery is in its default state, but if not things rapidly get out of control.

    I create templates for businesses who require an absolutely reproducible format for their client-facing documents. The way I achieve this is a multi-pronged attack. First I create a list gallery entry with the desired multi-level numbering (my clients typically want numbered text paragraphs as well as headings). That list links to appropriate paragraph styles which are created for the purpose, not adapted from the defaults (else cut-and-paste gives weird results). I then overwrite the default list-affecting toolbar button actions with my own macros that switch paragraph styles around rather than changing the list. Finally I disable the list gallery to make sure my carefully constructed list can't be changed by the user, and I disable "create lists as I type".

    The last stage is to force the style gallery styles to be just the ones I want the user to use not the ones Microsoft decree.

    All that was a lot of exacting work, but it paid dividends for the clients who adopted it because finally their staff spent their time writing reports not trying to format the numbering! In Word 6 numbering just worked...

    I am about to try this with Word 2010 - I hope under the ribbon UI I can still do it!

    If you do this, remember that you have to make a template (dot) not a document, put it in a secure shared location with read-only permissions for users, and set the Word "workgroup templates" locatiion to that folder. In 2007 and 2010 also set the trust centre to trust that folder. Otherwise users will (a) edit it by mistake and (b) send the macros to their clients in the document, then find the document gets rejected due to containing macros.

    Ian.

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    Thank you for confirming that the Style and Paragraph formats are intricately connected. I think in Word2010, the priority is given to the Styles; even though these Styles are actually based on root Paragraph formatting. Yet a "Numbered List" does NOT have the same functionality as Styles (the double-A icon) labeled as "Heading 1, Heading 2", etc. These are the ones that are even more broke than prior Word versions. Due credit must still be given to Office/Word, as it provides many work-arounds to many encountered problems.
    Have you considered using the dreaded Acrobat for your 'form/template' design and entry requirements? AcroX is nice and secure now for collaborative environments.
    I am not certain if you are aware that the new Word now allows directly saving as a *.pdf ('Save As...' command, which now is complicated with the overdue 4-character extensions, such as the *.docx or *.docm).

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    Ian, pseudoid:

    One source of the apparent 'broken-ness' of outline numbering starting in Word 2007, is that the way styles and numbered lists get associated, was changed. Most Word 2003 and earlier users were familiar with creating outline numbered lists by modifying a style - for instance, going to Heading 1 and then drilling down to modify the style's numbering.

    The association between styles and outline numbered lists in Word 2007/2010 (now 'multilvel lists') didn't really change in any functional way; you just need to go to a different place to access the numbering elements. The following are pretty foolproof steps for setting up a stable multilevel list:

    • With your cursor in a paragraph that is an example of the style that you want to use for Level 1 of the list - for instance, Heading 1 - go to the Ribbon, in the paragraph group, click on the Multilevel List button, and then on 'Define New Multilevel List' (Note: despite the wording, you go here both to create new multilevel lists, as well as to modify existing ones.) This will make the 'Define New Multilevel List' dialog appear - which is virtually identical to the former outline numbering dialog.
    • If necessary, click on the 'More' button at the bottom left to see the entire dialog.
    • Step through each level and assign a style to each level, in the 'Link level to style:' dropdown.
    • Apply every level of the list here, and then click OK to exit the dialog.

    Notes:

    • If you ever need to modify an existing multilevel list (no matter which level of the list), always start with your cursor in a paragraph that has the Level 1 style applied, and then go to the Define New Multilevel List dialog and make the necessary changes.
    • If you need to have more than one multilevel list in a document or a template, you must associate each list with a completely different set of styles - so if Heading 1 - Heading 9 is used for one list, you'll need to create a second set of styles for the purpose of associating with a second multilevel list.
    • Your users should never need to use the List Gallery at all - if they need numbering, they apply the styles that have been associated with the numbering they need.
    • Whether in the user interface or via macros, the List Gallery shouldn't be relied on - just set up the lists as described above, and everything should stay sane and stable.

    Gary

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    Exactly Gary. Multilevel lists are fundamentally broken and only careful handling by someone who knows what they are doing can save them!

    There's a very good explanation of the pitfalls and how to avoid them on a blog somewhere, but I can't now find the bookmark.

    Ian

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    As creator of this thread I have solved my problem, and it is remarkably simple. Goto Word Options > Proofing > Autocorrect > Autoformat as you type > Select the 2nd option at the bottom of vthe box "Set left - and first indent with tabs and backspaces"
    Not only does this activate the tab option and shift tab move back up the list, but pressing Enter also moves back up the list.
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by iansavell View Post
    Multilevel lists are fundamentally broken and only careful handling by someone who knows what they are doing can save them!

    There's a very good explanation of the pitfalls and how to avoid them on a blog somewhere, but I can't now find the bookmark.

    Ian
    Ian, I just posted a question in which (I think) the broken multi-level numbering is the root cause. And now that my user has messed it up, I'm pretty much SOL unless I start over. Oh, Microsoft, thank you so much for Word 2007.

    If you find that blog, please post it or PM me the link!

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    A good place to start learning about outline list numbering is http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/numb...g20072010.html

    Personally, I always use macros to set, control and modify list numbering. This requires a template to house the macros but the results are very stable and predictable and problems are resolved instantly at the click of a button.
    Andrew Lockton, Chrysalis Design, Melbourne Australia

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