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  1. #1
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    What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Could somebody please post the trick to getting the cursor in front of a table when the table is the first thing in a document? I have the answer at work, but that was for Word 97 anyway, I think.

    Also, I've been sending documents to friends that are just tables, and lately they have been either not getting the documents or getting them but having them open in Acrobat with a 'document does not begin with %pdf' error message. I have virus-scanned the document at home and at work, and there are no macros anyway.

    I thought this might be from a cheap pdf maker I installed, and have now uninstalled, but the problem persists. I've found, though, that if I put a section break before the table, it's ok. At least for one recipient.

    That's why I want to get in front of the table to insert a section break. When I did it for the test, I added the table to the end of another document (was ok), removed the first section (leaving just the table, was not ok=not delivered), copied the table to a new document that began with a section break (was ok).

    I want to test it with a continuous section break at the start, which is why I want to rememer how to get there to do that. Speaking of which, when I tried that before in Word 97 at work, the continuous section break went after the table, but a section break next page stayed in front of the table. Is there a reason for that? Can't I have a continuous section break first? I put in some line feeds, but that didn't help.

    I just tried again in Word 2000, copying the table into a new document after a continuous section break. Only when I had the first section in portrait and the table in landscape, was I able to get the table after the continuous section break. Then when I changed the whole document to landscape, I had three pages: a blank one, the table one, then a blank one. I had to reset one of the breaks (where did I get two section breaks anyway?) to continuous and was still ok with a break before the table. But when I changed the margins so that the table would fit on the first page, the initial section break disappeared.

    More testing. I might get this figured out by the time I post it. Next I noticed that the table, the first thing, was section 2; the section break that followed the table was section 1. I have just in Table Properties, positioning, ticked Move with Text and unticked Allow Overlap, and now I have the continuous section break before the table! On one page, just what I want. And section 1 comes first, not last.

    All this to get a table delivered in email. I hope some MVP is doing a Word 2000 tables page, please!!

    And I hope someone remembers the first question - how to get in front of a table, without having to copy the table to a new document to do it!

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Try this simple method (there are others).
    With insertion point in table, do Table/Select/Table
    Then use any technique to cut the table.
    Hit enter for a blank line, and then paste cells.
    There will be a blank line before the table.

    Good luck,
    Bob_D

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Hi Wendy:

    Here's another:

    Make sure there are a couple of empty paragraphs typed after the table.

    Hover the cursor over the 'selection box' at the upper left hand corner of the table. The cursor will show a four-directional pointer. Click and drag the entire table down one or two paragraphs.

    Regards,
    Gary

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Well, neither of those was what I was thinking of, but they both work fine. Thanks Bob and Gary.

    In Word 97, there was some keystroke that put the cursor in front of the table. I'd be interested to know if it works in 2000, but first I'll have to find what it is. I'll look tomorrow.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    If you are in the first cell, Split Table puts you in a blank line above the table.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Hi Wendy:

    If the cursor is in the top left of the uppermost left table cell, pressing <enter> creates a blank line above the table. I think that's the easiest way.

    Hope this helps.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    That's what I was trying to remember, Phil. That works on the 2000 document opened on 97. I'll try it at home in 2000 - I have the idea that I tried that, but I'll check. Thanks.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    I'm looking forward to trying split table, as it sounds familiar. I think Help said to hit enter or split the table, and that's what makes me think I tried hitting enter last night and it didn't work. I'll check these both later. Thanks.

    I feel so fortunate to have had help from the great minds of this group. Now I wish I had given the post a better title so I could find it again. However, since it's been my standard subject line lately (and close to my standard swear words at home), I suppose I'll remember it.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Enter works fine in 2000. It really is easy.
    Split table works fine too, Jefferson. Everything everyone suggested works fine. Thanks.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Hi Wendy,

    Probably best to use Jeff or Phil's (couldn't be simpler!) suggestion than mine - I just had a look at it again, and it causes a strange effect - to see this in action, do the following:

    Create a new blank document.
    Make sure you are set to Print Layout view.
    In Tools > Options make sure paragraph marks and text boundaries are showing.
    Type a bunch of empty paragraphs.
    With the insertion point to the left of one of the paragraph marks, insert a new table (doesn't have to be at start of document).
    Click an insertion point anywhere in the table, and then grab the table selection marker at the upper left of the table, and drag the table down a few paragraphs.

    Note that a text boundary will have become visible just above the table.
    Click an insertion point in the paragraph just above this text boundary, type a few letters, and the Enter.
    The new paragraph mark will briefly appear below the table, then pop back up above the table, and the table will pop down one line - it's as if the table is behaving somewhat like an anchored graphic object.
    Once that text boundary is in the document, it doesn't appear to be possible to get rid of it, short of deleting the table.

    Now, the next one is similar, but even weirder:
    In an empty paragraph, type some brief text, then Enter so you're on a new line. In that line insert a new table - so that the line of text is directly above the table.
    Click in the table, grab the table selection box, and drag the table down a couple of paragraphs.
    You should now see two text boundaries - one above and one below the table (actually there will be one empty paragraph under the table, and then the text boundary. And also actually, the text boundary below the table doesn't look quite like a text boundary, but is a solid gray line).
    In the empty paragraph that is just below the table, but just above the solid gray text boundary, type a few letters and then Enter.
    Your newly-typed line of text will end up - above the table - weird!

    What is going on there? Seems like a not quite perfect implementation of a new feature. Wonder what the purpose of it is supposed to be anyway.....

    Gary

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Thanks for the posting, Gary. Finally, confirmation that it's not just ME. These new tables have a mind of their own. I'll check out your findings tomorrow night, but I've definitely seen the text moving up in front of a table. They are graphic-like in the way they can be dragged to the left or right.

    Check out table properties. I don't have 2000 here to look at, but I vaguely remember finding some setting that's similar to 'in line' that helped a lot.

    As I mentioned at the start of this thread, people have had trouble receiving my Word 2000 files that contain only a table and a header. When I put a continuous section break before the table, they were able to receive and open the file (in some previous cases, some recipients didn't even receive the file, while others (same mailing) did but couldn't open it, and one recipient had no problem with it - I'll have to check who has what version of Word).

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Gary, one of the settings I was talking about is under Table Properties, Positioning, under Options, untick Move with Text and I also unticked Allow Overlap.

    I've gotten so confused now that I have myself believing this makes sense. With Move with Text unticked, when you type on the line immediately ABOVE the table, as soon as you get to the end or hit enter, you continue below the table. If you have that option ticked (default), the cursor goes briefly under the table, but then flips up above it . So it seems to be correcting itself.

    If you're typing UNDER the table, before the grey line, if the move with option is ticked (default), the line flips up, as you mentioned. If you untick it, it stays put. From under the table, before the next text boundary, if you don't have boundaries showing, it seems to be the opposite of what the setting implies - Move with text means 'move against text' and don't move with text means 'stay put'. When you see the boundaries, it seems to indicate that anything above the grey line belongs to the previous boundary, unless Move with is unticked.

    Until you drag the table and treat it like a graphic object, that Positioning option doesn't seem to be available. So that seems sort of clever for it to recognize that it's being treated like a graphic, therefore it takes on some graphic properties. Someone no doubt requested just such a feature.

    Another property, text wrapping, seems to be default. If you change it to No wrapping, then positioning is not available, and the text boundaries disappear from around the table and text stays where you'd expect. This seems to be the simplest way, once you've moved a table, to get it to revert to behaving the way tables used to behave. I'm investigating whether this has anything to do with the trouble my friends have had receiving my table files.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Thanks Wendy - that's very interesting.
    Turning off text wrapping, after the table has been dragged, does seem to revert it to a 'normal' table minus the text boundaries. So now Word is internally tracking a "HasBeenDragged" property for tables it looks.

    While mentioning graphic-like features of Word 2000 tables, another new feature (which must also have been requested by someone) is the resize handle which appears at the bottom right corner of a table when the selection is in the table.
    Put the cursor over this and it turns into a double-arrow resize cursor, and you can resize the table much like any graphic object.

    I'm hoping someone will explain a lifesaving use for this feature and make me feel better <g>, 'cause for now all I think of is the mischief this can cause - you've got your column widths set up just like you want them, you've got your row heights set up just like you want them, then someone else can come along and easily throw that all out of whack by dragging the resize handle. <img src=/S/yikes.gif border=0 alt=yikes width=15 height=15>

    Regards,
    Gary

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Thanks, Gary - I never saw that thing before you mentioned it. It seems a bit imprecise - most of the time it expanded the table to quite a bit less vertically than where I had my cursor when I clicked, but not always. You're implying that it's better not to know anyway, and I'm inclined to agree. I suspect it was really put in to help people use tables for page setup, the way people code web pages.

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    Re: What's with Word 2000 tables (again) (Word 2000)

    Gary, it's even way more weird than you said. In document that was giving me so much trouble, I put a section break BEFORE the table and my friends received it, so I thought that was that. Then I saw what they received: row 6 of the table came first, as a separate table; then the rest of the table with the first 6 rows in a frame (I did NOT deliberately use a frame), then the section break, now positioned AFTER the table! Word wrapping was set to none (on both tables).

    And have you see the routine where you either drag a row to a new position, or cut it and paste it, and all the rows scrunch up? Wait till you see that one! It's very scary.

    I wonder if it's just worth saving documents with tables as Word 95 if they're to be sent to people who don't have Word 2000.

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