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  1. #1
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    Problems with backup programs

    I have posted this in another forum, but have received no responses. Hopefully Windows Secrets will be better!

    Can't use Acronis or Easeus backup programs

    I am having a strange problem using some backup problems. A brief(?) background first.
    I recently purchased a WD 2 TB external hard drive. When I connected it to my desktop computer, the computer would recognize it as a 128 GB drive (this is after initializing and formatting it on my laptop, because I had problems doing that on my desktop). On my desktop, I kept getting messages to format the drive, despite the fact that this had already been done. With the laptop (also Win 7 Home premium), there are no issues. To try to solve the problem, I disabled some services, among them an Acronis service and an Easeus service. The drive then behaved normally and was recognized by Windows Explorer and in Disk Management as a 2 TB drive. I was able to backup folders from my desktop to the external drive, and to create an image of my laptop using Easeus Backup.
    Now to the problem! When I tried to backup my desktop using Acronis TI or Easeus, I had to re-enable the services I had disabled earlier. When I did that, I went back to Windows not recognizing the drive - it said it had to be formatted. In Disk Management, the drive showed as a 128 GB drive.
    I did manage to make a backup of the desktop using Windows backup, but that took several hours. I would like to be able to use Acronis or Easeus for the backup, but that seems to be impossible.
    Any ideas about what could be causing my problems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fifer1943 View Post

    Can't use Acronis or Easeus backup programs

    I went back to Windows not recognizing the drive - it said it had to be formatted. In Disk Management, the drive showed as a 128 GB drive.
    fifer,
    Hello and welcome to W.S. Lounge...I'm sure that you will find the help that you need getting this straightened out . I like to start at the beginning, as i have no idea as to your "PC " level so... i start with the basics , and go from there. ( no disrespect intended)
    1. What Version of Acronis are you using?
    2. When you bring up "Windows Disk Management" what does the HD show?
    3. Is the HD formatted to NTFS, or FAT-32 ?
    4. Does it have any Partitions ?
    5. Does Windows give it a drive letter?
    Lets start there... Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

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    Thanks for the response. In reply to your questions:
    1. Acronis TI WD edition 2010
    2. When I try to run Acronis, Disk Management shows 128 GB RAW. Otherwise, 1863.01 GB (2 TB), NTFS, Healthy, Primary Partition, as expected.
    3. NTFS
    4. No partitions
    5. Yes

    To add to the confusion, I downloaded Macrium Reflect Free and was able to backup the desktop with no problems. Obviously I can use this program, and would be happy to do so, but I hate unsolved problems! Both Acronis and Easeus don't work and I would like to know why.

    Hope this helps.

    fifer

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    Quote Originally Posted by fifer1943 View Post
    2. When I try to run Acronis, Disk Management shows 128 GB RAW. Otherwise, 1863.01 GB (2 TB), NTFS, Healthy, Primary Partition, as expected.

    I downloaded Macrium Reflect Free and was able to backup the desktop with no problems.
    fifer,
    Hello... I not understanding "when i try to run acronis" ... What does " Windows Disk management" show not running Acronis? I also use TI 2010 but no the "WD" version...Yes Macrium Reflect is a great program..Also is there any Data on the disk?Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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    Sorry if I wasn't clear.
    When I run Acronis TI WD Edition to try to backup my desktop, Windows Disk Management shows that my ext drive has a capacity of 128 GB instead of its expected 2 TB. I also get a message window that the drive in F has to be formatted. That is obviously incorrect since the drive has been formatted and already has data on it (some backed up folders, an image of my laptop, and the image of my desktop I created using Macrium).
    Under normal conditions, i.e. when not running Acronis TI, Windows Disk Management shows that the ext drive has a capacity of 1863 GB (2 TB) as expected.
    The crux of the matter is that whenever I run Acronis TI, my 2 TB external drive suddenly has a capacity of 128 GB instead of 2 TB, and becomes unreadable in Windows. When I restart my computer, everything goes back to normal and the drive shows its expected capacity in Windows Disk Management, and is readable in Windows Explorer. Something associated with Acronis TI makes it appear that my drive shrinks in capacity and becomes corrupt.
    I was able to use Windows backup to create an image also, but it seemed extremely slow.

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    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Fifer,

    Also welcome to the lounge.

    If I read your initial post correctly both computers are running Win-7 HP?
    Two more questions:
    1. Are both machines running 64 Bit or 32 Bit Windows 7 HP or one of each?
    2. Did you by any chance install an Acronis Secure partition on the WD drive.

    Two comments:
    1. The WD version of Acronis is Not the full retail version so it may be a but in the WD version. I'd contact WD about this since it is their drive and modified software causing the problems.
    2. Although I'm an avid Acronis & WD user I've tested Macrium Reflect and it works just fine and since it won't cost you anything to switch...why fight?
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

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    Thanks RetiredGeek (some of my friends refer to me by that name too!!)
    Yes both laptop and desktop run 64 bit Win 7 HP.
    No is the answer to your second question.
    Good suggestion about contacting WD; I will follow up on that.
    As I said earlier, I have no problem using Macrium to backup. I just happened to use Acronis first, and it seemed logical to use the WD edition. I don't like unsolved problems, so I would really like to know what is causing my problem. I was also able to obtain (legally) a copy of Easeus ToDo Professional and I am trying that out at the moment, so far without problems.
    It looks like Macrium (or maybe Easeus Professional) is the way to go -- but I would really like to find out why Acronis doesn't work!!

    Thanks

    fifer

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    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
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    Fifer,

    One other thought, are you using Acronis from Windows or from the Linux Boot Rescue disk? I always do my backups using the Rescue Disk I just like to have Windows out of the way.
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

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    I am using Windows.

    fifer

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    "EASEUS Pro" sounds like v.2.5. Try v.2.5.1.Free, which actually has more options than v.2.5 Pro. V.3.0 coming in about 2 weeks (beta already out).

    Zig

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    Quote Originally Posted by fifer1943 View Post

    As I said earlier, I have no problem using Macrium to backup. I just happened to use Acronis first, and it seemed logical to use the WD edition. I don't like unsolved problems, so I would really like to know what is causing my problem.
    fifer,
    Hello... When you made the "Macrium Backup" can you "mount" the file? If so does it show all your "Data" Files \ folders etc. Also when you look at your HD using "Windows Disk Management".... does it show just one Partition or does the "RAW" show up as un-formatted? Reason is.... Windows can not see the data in a RAW partition (you would need a 3rd party software to read or retrieve it . As far as i know Macrium doesn't deal with "RAW" either (maybe wrong on that ...but not many PC's use RAW as a format) Here's is my suggestion If Macrium has made an Image (and you can mount it) ...save it somewhere and format your WD hard drive using Windows (NTFS) one partition ( or whatever you want ) just get rid of that "RAW" formatted part... If successful then "Recover" your Macrium image back to the WD HD Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    Cool

    Just a thought, from the Old School

    Never back up Windows, from within Windows. That is just too fraught with the possibility of disaster.
    For over 30 years, I've been setting up backup schemes for Corporations, Banks, offices and home computers.

    Rule one is always, get the OS out of the way, with all files Closed, before starting a backup.
    Then use only a backup program that can properly address your hardware, whatever that may be.

    "Ghost" was the program that started all this Home Computer backup stuff, 14 years ago. I used it then and I use it now.
    Albeit, a later version.
    I do have a version that will run from within Windows, but I never use it. I much prefer to boot up my computer with a DOS based boot disk. I then run my own batch files, to delete all the junk files off of the hard drive before I actually run Ghost to start the backup.
    My pre-backup cleanup of the HD, gets rid of over 4 gig's of unnecessary files, that have no place in a backup image file.

    You're just wasting valuable time and disk space, if you don't delete all your junk files before doing a backup. To me that's just one of those common sense things, that may not even occur to the average home computer user.

    I've tried Acronis True Image and it's a pretty good backup program, if run from the Recovery Disk, not from within Windows. At the time I first tested Vista, ATI was the only program I had that would reliably back up Vista and also restore it. Since then, I've acquired a later version of Ghost, that I can run from a DOS boot disk, that will back up Vista, Windows 7 and at least SOME version of Linux.

    I got ATI for FREE from Seagate, installed it on my PC, made the recovery CD and promptly deleted it off of my HD. When you can run both the backup and restore from the CD, why waste the space on the HD? * Eh?
    * When your HD has gone up in big puff of smoke, having your backup and restore software on that drive will do you absolutely NO good at all. Get it?

    Just some food for thought. (Pizza for the mind)

    Cheers Mates!
    the Doctor

    PS: Every one of my weekly backups, with Ghost, takes these three steps.
    1. Close out windows and reboot with my Ghost boot disk. (CD or Flash Drive)
    2. Run batch files on the CD to clean out all the junk files on the HD before actually running Ghost and doing the backup, (a compressed Image File) to my Second hard drive.
    3. Check the validity of the Backup Image File and then restore it.
    .... the restore completely RE-Writes my HD, putting all the files in perfect order, with NO spaces and NO fragmentation. It's the most perfect Defrag I've ever found in 30 years.
    Last edited by DrWho; 2011-07-31 at 21:09.
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to DrWho For This Useful Post:

    Washburn59 (2011-08-01)

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    Thanks for all the suggestions.

    @ Zig
    I did try the free version of Easeus and I had problems with that. The Pro version worked perfectly.

    @Fred
    I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "mount" the file. I was able to "Explore the image" and it shows all the folders I would expect to see from my C drive (the one I backed up). Just to make it clear about the RAW 128 GB partition. This ONLY shows in disk management when I try to Run Acronis TI WD edition. When I exit this program and restart my computer, the drive shows as expected - a 2TB formatted partition. The drive already has data on it, and nothing happens to this data when I try to run Acronis WD edition. Windows disk management falsely reports the drive as a 128 GB RAW partition, but after restarting, the data is still there unaffected. I don't think my drive is the problem - it is that Acronis WD edition somehow does not allow Windows to recognize the drive as a 2 TB formatted (all one partition) drive. I don't need to get rid of the 128 GB RAW partition - it really isn't there! Windows disk management reports it falsely. I know it isn't really there because if I disconnect the drive and connect it to my laptop, everything shows as expected. It also shows as expected when I DON'T run Acronis WD edition. So I don't think we need to be concerned about that 128 GB RAW partition - it does not exist.

    @DrWho
    I appreciate all of your thoughts.
    I do clean up my C drive before backing up.
    Macrium Reflect is a well thought of program in this forum and appears to have worked well for me. I wanted to try an alternative and Easeus Professional also backed up with no problems. Windows backup worked as well but was much slower than the others. I may just try your suggestion of backing up from a recovery disk.

    To all:
    I have contacted WD to see what they say about Acronis WD edition and their hard drive. I don't expect anything other than the usual company line - "It really isn't our software, so too bad". I may be surprised.

    I have solutions that work for backing up; I now know to avoid Acronis TI WD edition! The mystery still remains however - why does Acronis not work in my case? I suppose I should just stop worrying about it and use the program(s) that work.

    Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I appreciate your time and your suggestions. This forum is a great resource.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fifer1943 View Post

    - it really isn't there! Windows disk management reports it falsely. I know it isn't really there because if I disconnect the drive and connect it to my laptop, everything shows as expected. So I don't think we need to be concerned about that 128 GB RAW partition - it does not exist.
    fifer,
    Sorry about my terminology confusing you... "mounting an image " is a standard to explore a backup image, assign a drive letter, and have a look see. If you run "Windows Disk Manager" and it shows that there is a partition of 128GB ....It's there.I can't see how it can report something (and show it) falsely. If you move the drive to your "laptop" and open The "Windows disk Manager" it would have to show as well, seeing how TI is still there, if it is as you say .. Could you post a "screen shot of "Windows Disk Management"? Regards Fred

    PS: I just had a thought....( during my morning run) It's possible that WD-TI has by default installed a "Secure Zone" on your disk ..If that be the case Windows would see it as "Unallocated" or maybe that WD-TI sets it up as a"RAW" partition... You could remove WD-TI through there "Uninstaller"( if they have one built in to the program) I know that TI Home 2010 (full version) will ask if it detects an Secure Zone ..if you want to remove it as well, prior to removal of there software.
    Last edited by Just Plain Fred; 2011-08-01 at 07:32.
    PlainFred

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    Although I wasn't sure what "mounting" a drive meant, I did exactly what you described, and was able to see what was in the image.

    With all due respect, Windows Disk Management is falsely showing the existence of a 128 GB partition when I run Acronis (and this is the only time it happens). I have had Disk Management open, before running Acronis, and it correctly shows my ext drive as a 2 TB drive (actually 1863 GB). As soon as I run Acronis, Disk Management then shows the drive as a 128 GB RAW partition. When I restart my computer, with Acronis not running, Disk Management again correctly shows the drive as a 2 TB drive, with no indication of any 128 GB partition being present. I also stated earlier that when Acronis runs, Windows then tells me that the external drive needs to be formatted, which it doesn't, and I cannot use Windows Explorer to read the drive. All of these errors disappear when I restart my computer with Acronis NOT running. The ONLY time I have a problem, and the ONLY time the drive shows as a 128 GB partition, is with Acronis running. I think I can say with some degree of confidence, that there is no problem with the drive; it also works perfectly with my laptop. Somehow Acronis is causing Windows and Disk Management to see the drive as something that it isn't. I am not going to attach any screen shots of Disk Management, since I have described in detail what they look like, both with Acronis running and not running. Screen shots will show no additional information.
    Both of us have probably spent too much time on this already! I have found at least two programs that I can use for backup (Macrium and Easeus Pro), so I will simply avoid using Acronis.
    I thank you for your continued interest in this problem. Since I can work around the problem by not using the offending program, I am quite happy. I don't like unsolved problems - it's a challenge for me - but I'm not sure at this point that it is worth trying to solve.

    fifer

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