Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Langhorne, PA
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    53
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    New coin battery causes damages

    My Dell XPS400 gave me a low battery (coin) message when I rebooted so I changed it carefully by unplugging, holding power button and grounding myself. Within a day I had multiple BSOD crashes. I am running Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit. I ran Microsoft Memory Test which quickly reported bad hardware which I narrowed down to one GB RAM out of four so I removed that plus one more so I now have 2GB RAM, 1GB in the DIMM 1 slot & 1GB in the DIMM 2 slot.

    NOTE: I was very careful to write down all BIOS settings before changing the battery and to restore them after.

    I continued to get BSOD crashes so I ran sfc /scannow which found corrupted files that it could not correct. A few years ago (before Windows 7), when I got this same result from an sfc scan I was able to manually fix the problem without reinstalling Windows but I don't remember what I did. I vaguely think I changed a setting in Services.

    Perhaps that's what I need to do now as I did remove my ATI Media card while I was working on the RAM problem since the Media card was not compatible with Windows 7. ATI/AMD basically said to get lost when I asked for an updated driver as the one they had for Vista crashed my system each time I tried to install it but that was at least six months ago.

    Norman

    P.S. After each crash I ran the WhoCrashed utility and those results follow:

    Crash Dump Analysis


    Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

    Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 1:48:50 AM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\082611-29515-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x4CD3BF)
    Bugcheck code: 0x1000007E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF800032CF3BF, 0xFFFFF88004AC1938, 0xFFFFF88004AC1190)
    Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT Kernel & System
    Bug check description: This indicates that a system thread generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
    This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
    The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 1:48:50 AM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
    Bugcheck code: 0x7E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF800032CF3BF, 0xFFFFF88004AC1938, 0xFFFFF88004AC1190)
    Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED
    Bug check description: This bug check indicates that a system thread generated an exception that the error handler did not catch.
    The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


    Crash Dump Analysis


    Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

    Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 5:53:53 PM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\082711-26520-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntfs.sys (Ntfs+0x5A88)
    Bugcheck code: 0x24 (0x1904FB, 0xFFFFF8800218E108, 0xFFFFF8800218D960, 0xFFFFF80002EDE3D7)
    Error: NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\ntfs.sys
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT File System Driver
    Bug check description: This indicates a problem occurred in the NTFS file system.
    The crash took place in a standard Microsoft module. Your system configuration may be incorrect. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver on your system which cannot be identified at this time.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 5:53:53 PM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntfs.sys (Ntfs+0x5A88)
    Bugcheck code: 0x24 (0x1904FB, 0xFFFFF8800218E108, 0xFFFFF8800218D960, 0xFFFFF80002EDE3D7)
    Error: NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\ntfs.sys
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT File System Driver
    Bug check description: This indicates a problem occurred in the NTFS file system.
    The crash took place in a standard Microsoft module. Your system configuration may be incorrect. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver on your system which cannot be identified at this time.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 1:48:50 AM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\082611-29515-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x4CD3BF)
    Bugcheck code: 0x1000007E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF800032CF3BF, 0xFFFFF88004AC1938, 0xFFFFF88004AC1190)
    Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT Kernel & System
    Bug check description: This indicates that a system thread generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
    This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
    The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


    Crash Dump Analysis


    Crash dump directory: C:\Windows\Minidump

    Crash dumps are enabled on your computer.


    On Sun 8/28/2011 3:05:21 AM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\082811-26239-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x7CC40)
    Bugcheck code: 0x19 (0x22, 0xFFFFF8A012C47000, 0x1, 0x0)
    Error: BAD_POOL_HEADER
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT Kernel & System
    Bug check description: This indicates that a pool header is corrupt.
    This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
    The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


    On Sun 8/28/2011 3:05:21 AM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\memory.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntkrnlmp.exe (nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x0)
    Bugcheck code: 0x19 (0x22, 0xFFFFF8A012C47000, 0x1, 0x0)
    Error: BAD_POOL_HEADER
    Bug check description: This indicates that a pool header is corrupt.
    This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem. This might be a case of memory corruption. More often memory corruption happens because of software errors in buggy drivers, not because of faulty RAM modules.
    The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 5:53:53 PM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\082711-26520-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntfs.sys (Ntfs+0x5A88)
    Bugcheck code: 0x24 (0x1904FB, 0xFFFFF8800218E108, 0xFFFFF8800218D960, 0xFFFFF80002EDE3D7)
    Error: NTFS_FILE_SYSTEM
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\drivers\ntfs.sys
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT File System Driver
    Bug check description: This indicates a problem occurred in the NTFS file system.
    The crash took place in a standard Microsoft module. Your system configuration may be incorrect. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver on your system which cannot be identified at this time.


    On Sat 8/27/2011 1:48:50 AM GMT your computer crashed
    crash dump file: C:\Windows\Minidump\082611-29515-01.dmp
    This was probably caused by the following module: ntoskrnl.exe (nt+0x4CD3BF)
    Bugcheck code: 0x1000007E (0xFFFFFFFFC0000005, 0xFFFFF800032CF3BF, 0xFFFFF88004AC1938, 0xFFFFF88004AC1190)
    Error: SYSTEM_THREAD_EXCEPTION_NOT_HANDLED_M
    file path: C:\Windows\system32\ntoskrnl.exe
    product: Microsoft® Windows® Operating System
    company: Microsoft Corporation
    description: NT Kernel & System
    Bug check description: This indicates that a system thread generated an exception which the error handler did not catch.
    This appears to be a typical software driver bug and is not likely to be caused by a hardware problem.
    The crash took place in the Windows kernel. Possibly this problem is caused by another driver which cannot be identified at this time.


    Conclusion


    Crash dumps have been found and analyzed.
    Read the topic general suggestions for troubleshooting system crashes for more information.

    Note that it's not always possible to state with certainty whether a reported driver is actually responsible for crashing your system or that the root cause is in another module. Nonetheless it's suggested you look for updates for the products that these drivers belong to and regularly visit Windows update or enable automatic updates for Windows. In case a piece of malfunctioning hardware is causing trouble, a search with Google on the bug check errors together with the model name and brand of your computer may help you investigate this further.



  2. #2
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Norman,
    Hello...As i do not believe in coincidences.. I first would try to check the voltage of the new battery... you can get a free program to do this CPUID HW Monitor HW Monitor Free also if that is OK recheck that you didn't disturb any other connections replacing the battery. Regards Fred
    PS: Try re-seating the "memory sticks" again.
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Just Plain Fred For This Useful Post:

    norm73 (2011-09-03)

  4. #3
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    I suppose it's possible the new battery itself was bad. Foolish question on my part but I have to ask, Did you ensure the battery was installed right side up? It does seem very strange that these problems would crop up with such a simple repair as this. I might also check all connections inside the case. It is possible to "jar" something else loose when opening a case. I have seen stranger things happen. I would. in addition to reseating the RAM, go ahead and reseat all other connectors. This is also a great time to ensure everything is cleaned and spinning correctly (dust bunnies in fans, etc.)
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Medico For This Useful Post:

    norm73 (2011-09-03)

  6. #4
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Langhorne, PA
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    53
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Sorry to be slow to respond but Irene caused the creek to flood 11' above flood stage liquifying the soil and dropping trees through the wires. I've been without electric or phone service for two days.

    The latest BSOD says the error was with NTFS.sys. I have the Windows 7 64-bit installation disk. Isn't there a way to extract that system file without running a complete reinstall? As I am running SP1 I know that I will have to remove that update before the Windows reinstall will run.

    1. To Just Plain Fred - I downloaded that software but it is only telling me the voltage of my UPS battery (27.xx volts), not the voltage of the motherboard battery.

    2. To Ted Myers - In order to find the RAM that Microsoft Memory Diagnostic said was defective I had to remove and reinstall the RAM in pairs so I know they are very well seated. Also, when I replaced the coin battery I did a cleaning using Qtips and gentle sprays of compressed air.

    Thanks to both,

    Norman

  7. #5
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,501
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 205 Times in 163 Posts
    Most every PC in the last decade has used the CR-2032, coin type 3v battery.
    They can actually be installed backwards, upside down, etc. But it's doubtful if a PC will boot up with the battery in backwards. * It would probably give the same effect as having no battery at all.

    I'd have a real good look at that ram. In the last ten years I've only had to throw out two sticks of ram. One was Spectec, called "Superman" ram by the big S on the chips. It's just known to be BAD ram.
    And the other was "Kingston", known to use refurbished ram.

    All other ram that has failed the Memtest program was just dirty. I just wash it with soap and water, rinse it with Denatured Alcohol, dry it and put it back in. No more Memtest failures. I've saved thousands of dollars worth of ram, just by washing it.
    I still have a video card, now about seven or eight years old, that had dirty ram and was throwing colored blocks all over my monitor screen.
    I removed the card from the PC, took it to the kitchen sink where I washed the ram. I set the board out on the porch to dry in the afternoon sun and later put it back in the PC. It's still working just fine today, in my backup system.

    After getting inside your PC, for something like a battery change, it's always a good idea to re-seat every connector that you might have come in contact with.

    Good Luck,
    The Doctor
    Last edited by DrWho; 2011-09-03 at 12:46.
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DrWho For This Useful Post:

    norm73 (2011-09-03),RetiredGeek (2011-09-02)

  9. #6
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manning, South Carolina
    Posts
    9,433
    Thanks
    371
    Thanked 1,456 Times in 1,325 Posts
    Dr. W.,

    Who knew! I sure didn't. Any recommended brands of soap? Thanks I've just added a new tool to my bag of tricks.
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
    Laptop Specs

  10. #7
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Langhorne, PA
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    53
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    I started this thread and am up & running but baffled!

    I now have 2 cards of RAM that tested bad and are branded NANYA. Removing them has, seemingly, brought an end to BSOD's. I have run sfc for each system file reported as causing a BSOD and found every one to be fine. I have not reinstalled Window 7 nor have I replaced any system files or any driver but I did check all boards and plugs for secure seating. Everything seemed secure but who knows? Oh, by the way, the battery (CR2032) tests as good and was installed correctly always.

    I am baffled by the fact that 'sfc /scannow' reported errors that it could not repair multiple times for several days and I rebooted after each run. But, as of last night 'sfc /scannow' reports it found and fixed all errors. I have reviewed CBS.log and it confirms my recollection of the "could not repair" and the "repaired" runs. Oh, does anyone know of software that decodes the gobbledygook in CBS.log into plain language?

    As regards washing the RAM cards - do you wash the entire card or just the contacts? Actually, considering the way the 'sfc' results changed I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 'bad' cards started testing as good without washing but I will wash before testing them.

    Simply changing a battery has turned out to be quite an ordeal.

    Thanks to all for the advice,

    Norman

  11. #8
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    As regards washing the RAM cards - do you wash the entire card or just the contacts? Actually, considering the way the 'sfc' results changed I wouldn't be surprised if the 2 'bad' cards started testing as good without washing but I will wash before testing them.
    Just ensure the contacts are clean and free of grime or anyform of metal shavings. If your RAM has fins and dust is present, use a can of compressed air. Take
    electrostatic precautions, electrostatic discharge is one of the biggest cases of RAM failure issues in previously known good RAM.
    How to analyze the log file entries that the Microsoft Windows Resource Checker (SFC.exe) program generates in Windows Vista

    decoding CBS logs

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to CLiNT For This Useful Post:

    norm73 (2011-09-03)

  13. #9
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,501
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 205 Times in 163 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by RetiredGeek View Post
    Dr. W.,

    Who knew! I sure didn't. Any recommended brands of soap? Thanks I've just added a new tool to my bag of tricks.
    RG,
    Nothing special, just what ever is on the kitchen sink at the time. "Dawn" works just fine, or whatever dish-washing detergent you may have handy.*
    For the really faint at heart, I suggest using just Denatured Alcohol. It doesn't cut tobaco tar as well as SOAP though.

    I once had to work on a PC, where the user smoked and kept his ashtray right in front of the tower. The entire inside of that PC looked like it had been sprayed with brown paint. Watta Mess!!!

    * What most Computer users don't know is that the last stage of PC-Board manufacture is "Washing" to remove any schmutz that might have gotten on there during manufacturing and assembly. I know this, because I was once in the PC-Board manufacturing business.
    While I worked for CAT, I set up and ran the only 'Plated-Through PC-Board" (prototyping) lab in Central Illinois.

    I follow the soap and water with a very thorough Denatured Alcohol rinse, to completely displace any water left on the board, around the chips, etc. Ideally, I like an overnight dry-time, but when I'm in a hurry, I use a hair dryer or heat gun, on LOW heat.
    I won't use Rubbing Alcohol, because it's mostly water anyway. Eh?

    Good Luck,
    The Doctor
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to DrWho For This Useful Post:

    norm73 (2011-09-03)

  15. #10
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    1,501
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 205 Times in 163 Posts
    If the ram cards have the metal Heat Spreaders covering the chips, the legs of the chips are probably NOT shorting together from dirt.
    I'd clean the edge connector thoroughly with a rag dampened with Denatured Alcohol.

    I have a little device called a "Buffing Bar" that I have used for years, to clean edge connectors on all sorts of plug in cards.
    But even after using that, or an Ink Eraser, to polish up the edge connector, the alcohol cleaning should be done to remove any metal particles or eraser residue.

    On the ram sticks with NO heat spreader and where the individual chips can be accessed, I try to clean all the dirt out from between the little legs on the sides of the chips. It doesn't take much to short those little legs together.

    Yes, a comparatively simple job, like changing a CMOS battery, can lead to all sorts of problems. Been there, Done that!

    I almost hate to admit this, but for several years now, I change the CMOS battery with full power on, so I don't have to reprogram the BIOS.
    I just tuck a clean dry rag under the battery to catch it when I pop it out of its holder. Then I check it with my Digital volt meter and if it doesn't show 3.0vdc or better, I just put in a new one, also while the power is on.
    I guess that separates the Old Timers from the First Timers, Eh?

    Cheers Mates!
    The Doctor
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  16. #11
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Langhorne, PA
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    53
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I've carefully examined my RAM cards and I do not see any 'legs' by the chips. I do know what you mean as I have seen them in the past and they do exist on one tiny chip on the cards but the main chips, 8 on the front and 8 on the back, do not have them. I am using a magnifying glass as I have not yet filled my prescription for new reading glasses. I am 70.

    In cleaning (while all power was drained) the RAM area with a spray of compressed air I noticed that I chilled some of the chips. Is that likely to have caused damage?

    I started computer work in 1959 and PC's in 1982 but this is the first time I have received a "change the battery" message and my older PC that I configured for my great, great nephews is 11 years old. The battery message was on my 5 year old PC.

    I'd have no problem changing the battery while powered on but I would still copy the settings just in case. It would be great if there were a way to print the settings just as it would be great to be able to copy (and paste) error messages without having to do a screen shot. Also, a simple plain language CBS.log would be nice as an alternative to the verbose version that they give us.

    I'm sure you all have no problems working with the registry or doing manual uninstalls, etc. but I imagine all of us have software wish lists.

    I know this is off the subject of this thread but I wonder if Microsoft has ever produced any improvement that you have requested. About 4 years ago one of their techs told me the most common complaint was that the "Product Key" was difficult to read but they did not improve that with Windows 7 or with Office 2010.

    Thanks again,

    Norman
    Last edited by norm73; 2011-09-03 at 14:18. Reason: Omiited an item.

  17. #12
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    In cleaning (while all power was drained) the RAM area with a spray of compressed air I noticed that I chilled some of the chips. Is that likely to have caused damage?
    If you've managed to get liquid on a component when you are using a can of compressed air then just alow time for it to evaporate, which shouldn't be be long, before
    powering back on. There should be no issue as a result of that.

    I know this is off the subject of this thread but I wonder if Microsoft has ever produced any improvement that you have requested. About 4 years ago one of their techs told me the most common complaint was that the "Product Key" was difficult to read but they did not improve that with Windows 7 or with Office 2010.
    I'm sure they have, but making CBS and other logs more user friendly is not among them.

    Talking about the product key, I always reprint the product key to the disk or disk cover with a sharpie to make it easier to read.
    Even with reading glasses I find the product key or sticker can be hard to read.

  18. #13
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Langhorne, PA
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    53
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Thanks CLiNT,

    Your post came to me via email which is how I'm subscibed to this thread but I was surprised that your post was followed by a threat:

    There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

    All the best,
    Windows Secrets Lounge

    I wasn't planning to visit this thread just yet as I am expecting 2 cards of RAM to arrive tomorrow at which time I will be able to do more testing but I logged in today so that I can receive "other replies" should there be any. Normally I just read the posting and ignore any comments from Windows Secrets Lounge. Does the above threat (notification) always appear or is it related to how much time has passed since I last logged in?

    My system remains crash free and I'll post more follow-up after I experiment with the new RAM.

    Norman

  19. #14
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    Thanks CLiNT,

    Your post came to me via email which is how I'm subscibed to this thread but I was surprised that your post was followed by a threat:

    There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

    All the best,
    Windows Secrets Lounge
    I have never subscribed to email notifications in threads so I can't "informedly" comment about what the nature
    of the reply rules may be. It looks like a generic response though.

  20. #15
    2 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Langhorne, PA
    Posts
    106
    Thanks
    53
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    CLiNT,

    Below is a partial copy from the email I received with your last post.

    I have never subscribed to email notifications in threads so I can't "informedly" comment about what the nature
    of the reply rules may be. It looks like a generic response though.
    ***************


    There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

    All the best,
    Windows Secrets Lounge

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •