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  1. #16
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    I believe the Metro Interface is in effect a replacement for the Start Menu on desktop and laptop machines. If that's the way Microsoft are heading, then I doubt that there will be a real way to disable it without a significant registry hack, which I would expect might lead to stability issues since there is no Start button or menu..

    A quick way to switch between Metro and desktop is to use the Windows Key: this makes it much easier and starts (no pun intended) to become usable....almost!

  2. #17
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    I installed ObjectDock on Win8, which is what's on my Win7 Dell laptop. I use it far more than the Start Menu anyway. So far it makes up for most of what I feel I miss by not having a traditional Start Menu.
    Chuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobprimak View Post
    That's a fine distinction as far as I'm concerned. It does not change the limitations on ARM architecture with regards to full-scale Windows applications. I doubt that many developers would support an ARM laptop, for example, if it meant recompiling all their code bases. Buyer beware seems to be the order of the day. Kind of like buying a laptop with a SATA-2 hard drive and a Sandy Bridge Core-i5 or Core-i7 processor. Due to a known flaw in the processors (a bad transistor in some production runs) the drive will mysteriously fail just past the one-year or two-year hardware warranty period. And no SATA-2 replacement will run on the computer thereafter, because the feature is gone at the processor level. Nice work, Intel!

    I do not like to buy hardware which ships broken. It's an insult. And ARM ships broken as far as I'm concerned.
    In what way does ARM ship broken?

    It was designed to run in low power devices and does so successfully.

    Your comparison with Intels cock-up is irrelevant.

    Also, doesn't code need to be optimised to make the most out of Intel/AMD processors?

  4. #19
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    The ARM advantage is obvious - low power consumption, bigger battery life. Just look at the smartphone and tables market share for ARM and you will have your answer. I see the proposal of having Windows 8 on ARM as a Microsoft attempt to fight for market share in a market segment where numbers are growing and MS's present is residual. You need to know what you are buying when you buy an ARM Windows 8 tablet or laptop, but there are many people who will be well served by such a choice.

  5. #20
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    The actual switching between Desktop and Metro and app usage is easier in CP than it was in DP (Win key is easy) A couple of features that power users might find useful:

    1) Power Users Menu: place your cursor to the lower left corner (where the Start menu thumbnail appears) and Right Click, the Power Users Menu appears:

    Edit: WinKey+X will open this as well

    PowerUsersMenu.jpg

    2) The Win 8 Charms are now working correctly with Desktop as well as Metro

    3) On Desktop, upper left corner brings up the Switcher. This is a list of previously used apps.

    Read about these and many more features in Paul Thurrott's Win 8 Supersite.
    Last edited by Medico; 2012-03-03 at 18:37.
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  7. #21
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    I can see how to make a tile on the new Metro Start page smaller but there isn't an option when right clicking on the smaller tile to make it larger again. Can this be done? Also when one installs a new app it's tile is small with an even smaller icon within it. Is there a way to make the icon larger?

  8. #22
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    shsvcs.dll looks to be its real name. can you confirm? johnwerneken@netzero.net

  9. #23
    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    And this whole effort is different from Win+Q how?

  10. #24
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    First, it's been a long time since I posted my earlier comments about Windows 8, ARM, and Tablets in general. I continue to consider tablets a poor replacement for laptops for many users, myself among us.

    Second, there are small utilities which can either give Metro a start menu of sorts ( Start8 ), or return the "legacy desktop" to a state where there is a Start Menu (Windows 8 Start Menu Toggle -- SMT --).

    So we do have choices, through the magic of third-party innovations.

    I spend about 90 percent of my Windows 8 time in the Desktop environment, so SMT would be good for me. I could still use Metro Apps (the free ones, anyway) from the desktop, but use the Start Menu much the same as in Windows 7 Home Premium. Mind you, this is a core-i5 laptop with no touch screen. On an ARM Tablet the situation would be reversed, with 90 percent of activities in Metro, and no Legacy x86/x64 Applications at all. But with the price of admission to the App Store pegged at $50.00 per year, I think I'll pass on the ARM option.

    As a desktop OS, Windows 8 is better than Windows 7 for file handling, security and web surfing, especially streaming videos. It also handles large downloads better than Windows 7. And pooled storage, while probably not the best solution for backups and mission-critical files, would work wonders for those huge media libraries or very large business databases which NTFS on a per-drive basis does not handle well enough. As long as traditional NTFS storage coexists alongside of the Data Pool, I'd be happy with both options. And somewhere in the mix, Cloud Storage has to be considered. But not with a hefty price-tag.

    Something tells me that, while Metro might make for a nifty Tablet interface, the traditional Desktop and its full-scale Applications, is not going away anytime soon. Anybody who wants to disagree -- feel free to post.
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  11. #25
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Browni View Post
    In what way does ARM ship broken?

    It was designed to run in low power devices and does so successfully.

    Your comparison with Intels cock-up is irrelevant.

    Also, doesn't code need to be optimised to make the most out of Intel/AMD processors?
    Windows 8 is not either/or regarding AMD-Intel or ARM. "Ships broken" means that it is a incomplete platform for serious computing. I stand by that assessment. Tablets are overpriced, and on top of that, we are expected to pay for each App downloaded, and per use for some Apps, and on top of that, an annual subscription just to enter the App Store, and on top of that... RIDICULOUS!!

    Codes need to be optimized for Intel-AMD or ARM. Two code bases to maintain vs. essentially one today. What company has those financial and tech support resources these days? Companies will either ignore Metro or embrace it and abandon Intel-AMD. With their existing x86/x64 customer base, I doubt many business software companies will go all-Metro. After all, unlike iPads, ARM Tablets can't even join a Domain. Companies will think at lesast twice before radically changing their programming paradigms. Especially in light of the fate of Zune and Windows Phone. Who knows how long ARM will last?
    Last edited by bobprimak; 2012-03-09 at 05:53.
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  12. #26
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    Thanks Bob. Not quite what I as looking for as this just gets back the Start button. My post referred to:-
    1. Resizing the app tile. Some tiles allow this on a right click, others don't. It's the others (at least some of them) I want to resize, e.g USA Today.
    2. Apps (or programmes as they were called) not downloaded from the app store, eg MS Office have a different type of tile added. All of these have a plain background with a small icon. The background colour is set by the colour chosen in Personalisation but applies to all of these, so not easy to visually differentiate. I would like to be able to customise these colours individually. Also I would like to change the size of the icon.

    Having worked with WIN 8 for a few days now I have concluded none of this is possible without the aid of 3rd party software.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobprimak View Post
    First, it's been a long time since I posted my earlier comments about Windows 8, ARM, and Tablets in general. I continue to consider tablets a poor replacement for laptops for many users, myself among us.
    Something tells me that, while Metro might make for a nifty Tablet interface, the traditional Desktop and its full-scale Applications, is not going away anytime soon. Anybody who wants to disagree -- feel free to post.
    Here is the part a lot of people are missing right now, and that's looking beyond the current separation of the desktop and tablet. MS built an OS that runs on both. That's not the innovation, nor is it entirely an accommodation of both form factors. Think blended form factors. Fujitsu has been building them for years. Now imagine one of these in a nice thin Ultra notebook. 500GB drive, touch screen. Use it as a tablet for quick e-mail and checking the weather. Flip it around and do "serious" computing. The HP TouchSmart blends touch and desktop.

    Yes, ARM is limited. But that's the market MS is shooting for the most. I daresay that at least 70% of users only check e-mail, social networking, and play a few games. Most people don't need or want "serious computing". So what MS has done is built something that is very flexible.

    I don't disagree about the importance of the desktop for many users, especially corporate users. Think RAW photo editing and processing, CAD, PACS systems, etc. The desktop cannot, and will not go away. Its just become less significant than it was 5 or ten years ago. One thing many people missed because MS didn't make a big deal of it was that on the same day the consumer preview was released, they also released Windows Server 8 Beta. The enhancement are quite geared to full desktops and "serious" computing.

    The desktop isn't dead. Not by a long shot. But its no longer the only way to accomplish daily tasks. Its kind of like when Chrysler introduced the mini-van. It looked like station wagons were dead. Yes, we saw less of them for a while. But today every manufacturer has at least some type of wagon offering.
    Chuck

  14. #28
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    When was the last time we saw a true station wagon from an American auto maker? I think it's been nearly twenty years.

    And even on an UltraBook (which by the way does not need to have a touch screen to fall into that category) either Metro is unnecessary and distracting, or else the traditional desktop is relatively unused and just a drag on System Reset and boot times.

    MS needs to decide -- is Win 8 a dessert topping or is it a floor wax? It cannot be both in the same edition. At least two distinct OS versions are needed. Kinda like MacOS vs. iOS.

    As for future form factors in mobile devices, have you seen the commercials for a Tablet which docks with a laptop? That is worth considering, if Tablet prices would come down a lot.
    Last edited by bobprimak; 2012-03-11 at 04:42.
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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobprimak View Post
    Buyer beware seems to be the order of the day. Kind of like buying a laptop with a SATA-2 hard drive and a Sandy Bridge Core-i5 or Core-i7 processor. Due to a known flaw in the processors (a bad transistor in some production runs) the drive will mysteriously fail just past the one-year or two-year hardware warranty period. And no SATA-2 replacement will run on the computer thereafter, because the feature is gone at the processor level. Nice work, Intel!

    I do not like to buy hardware which ships broken. It's an insult. And ARM ships broken as far as I'm concerned.
    I know little about SATA-2 and nothing about Sandy Bridge Core-i5 or Core-i7 processors, but clearly something to bear in mind when next looking for a replacement PC or laptop.

    I must copy this somewhere, but will I remember where when the time comes?

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    The Sandy Bridge SATA 2 problem is not a CPU problem but a chipset problem. See: http://blogs.intel.com/technology/2011/01/chipset_design_flaw/
    You shoudn't run into the problem with a new unit.
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