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  1. #1
    Lounger
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    New Win7 user annoyed at 'unhelpful' Win7 way of doing things

    It was finally time to replace my computer, and of course new ones come with windows 7.

    I am now running windows home 7 premium 64 bit. I know it stores things in different locations and I am ready, willing and able to move into the brave new windows 7 world.

    I installed a second hard drive in my old XP computer, used WD data tools and made a bootable copy. Then I installed it into the new computer. (just for fun, I disconnected the original drive and tried to boot the new computer from the xp backup. It would only boot into safe mode, and could not find the new hardware. I expected as much. I really don't want dual boot, I just want to easily move my files and programs to the new computer)

    Anyway, the first thing I do is download firefox. I want to run profile manager, so right click on the brand spanking new firefox icon and add -P to the command so that it reads; "C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe -P

    "ERROR!!..specified in the target box is invalid.make sure the path and file name are correct. What the heck? I can type firefox.exe -P in the run box and it works. Why can't I change the shortcut?

    (In XP the start/run box would remember the last several commands and give me a drop down so I wouldn't have to type it again. This handy little shortcut is no longer available in win7.)

    Then I try to save a simple text file to C:\;Just so I know where it will be.
    "You don't have permission to save in this location" What? I am the administrator, why is windows 7 refusing to let me do what I want?This is hugely annoying to me.

    I found a big long winded methodon a microsoft site to grant permissions(click property, security, advanced, owner, change owner,but it did not work. I still cannot save a simple .txt file to C:\

    I guess I am off to buy some books, like "Missing Manual" and/or "Windows 7 Annoyances"I am trying to do the real work of moving my stuff to the new computer, but I keep getting stopped by all these little stupid things.

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  3. The Following User Says Thank You to dalejanus For This Useful Post:

    Bob Spafford (2011-12-01)

  4. #2
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    Install TakeOwnership. Makes 7 a lot "friendlier" to those who have known and enjoyed the freedom to do stuff with XP.

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    Bob Spafford (2011-12-01)

  6. #3
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    From what you entered you are missing a quotation mark aft firefox.exe.

    Starting with Vista and continuing forward with Windows 7, even though your account is a member of the administration group you do NOT have unfettered, unrestricted access to everything on the PC. You do NOT have the same privileges as the builtin "Administrator" account. All this is a part of Microsoft's continuing effort to reduce the attack surface available to malware.

    Joe

  7. #4
    4 Star Lounger
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    I just lasted a total of about 4 hours with a OEM from HP. It was denying me all sorts of access and driver signed program installations. I couldn't even get at the UAC.
    So more than ever W7 does seem set up to reduce attack vectors...and the convenience to use the computer exactly like I want to...my own install is going on NOW!

  8. #5
    4 Star Lounger
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    Ahhhhh...my stress level just went down about 2 notches Functioning as expected now.

  9. #6
    Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    From what you entered you are missing a quotation mark aft firefox.exe.

    Starting with Vista and continuing forward with Windows 7, even though your account is a member of the administration group you do NOT have unfettered, unrestricted access to everything on the PC. You do NOT have the same privileges as the builtin "Administrator" account. All this is a part of Microsoft's continuing effort to reduce the attack surface available to malware.

    Joe
    I want unfettered, unrestricted access to everything on MY OWN COMPUTER. Microsoft's efforts to reduce malware, while late, are appreciated. Except when they interfere with me using my computer.



    I had difficulty posting to my original thread:
    "C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe -P" should have been the original post. What I discovered is the parameters should be outside the quotes
    "C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -P worked as expected.

    My objection was to microsoft's not very helpful error message. I suppose I will get more familiar with them, considering all the mistakes I will be making with windows 7.

  10. #7
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    The only way on a Windows 7 system to get complete unfettered access is to a activate the builtin Administrator account and login using it.

    BTW, I've not found anything on a Windows 7 PC that I can't get done. It may take me a little more effort but I can find a way. I don't think that is necessarily a bad thing. It makes me consider what I'm doing more thoroughly than with XP.

    Joe

  11. #8
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    Microsoft's efforts to reduce malware, while late, are appreciated.
    It should also be borne in in mind that the reason why Microsoft products were such an "easy" target was the unrestricted access through accounts with full administrator privileges. No modern OS gives complete, unrestricted access without some kind of workaround and a big risk.

    This is not the fault of Microsoft, Red Hat, Sun, Berkeley, HP, Canonical or Apple (to name but a few). It is a sensible precaution especially in light of the attacks by the bad guys out there.

  12. #9
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    The biggest problem, in my mind, is the huge numbers of people out there that do NOT use even simple precautions in the everyday computing. These people generally do NOT visit this or any other forum. They just blindly go about whatever they want without thought to the consequences. Then they wonder what's happening to their PC's, why are they slowing down, why don't they have access to sites they used to see, etc. MS, by necessity, builds the security in Win 7 for these masses of people who don't know or care about security. I do not care what happens to their systems, but when their system begins sending Spam without their knowledge, or they begin spreading the latest variation of nasty trojan, which might ultimately affect me, then I begin to care.

    Win 7 is the securest offering from MS to date and I applaud them for the steps they take to make us all more secure. I will always be willing to take the extra steps to gain "full access" to my PC if I want it. I do however plan on a multi-layered approach to the security of my PC before taking these steps to try to protect myself from these masses of people that do not.

    By the way, in most cases it's these masses of people that keep the PC techs in business, JOB SECURITY!!!
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
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    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Medico For This Useful Post:

    Mike Feury (2011-12-01)

  14. #10
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    By the way, in most cases it's these masses of people that keep the PC techs in business, JOB SECURITY!!!
    I have to admit an ironic smile upon reading that one Ted!

  15. #11
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    It's pretty early here for me to get my brain cell working well enough to come up with that one. I better rest for a while. Don't want to overtax the cell!
    Have a great day. Gotta get ready for work. It's a 2 mug morning.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


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  16. #12
    Bronze Lounger DrWho's Avatar
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    Working? I stopped doing that six years ago!
    Every morning is a Two-Mug morning for me.

    Back on topic:

    Win-7 is a lot more enjoyable if you take out your software baseball bat and beat the heck out of it.

    I go berserk when Windows tells me I don't have permission to do something on the computer I built and own 100%.

    So, out of self preservation and to keep some semblance of Sanity, I first shut off UAC, with a little script.
    Then I install "Grant Full Admin Control" which is like Take Ownership on steroids.

    Then I install the "Classic Shell". That makes menu's and windows a lot more friendly.

    There's a lot more, but that would take up more space than I really want to use up on this forum.

    My entire tune-up package for Win-7 is on my web site.

    Cheers Mates!
    Last edited by DrWho; 2011-11-28 at 13:04.
    Experience is truly the best teacher.

    Backup! Backup! Backup! GHOST Rocks!

  17. #13
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    Just to gently stir things up a bit more: you don't 100% own the computer. You do not own the OS, nor it's implementation. You have purchased a licence to install and use the Operating System. In this case Microsoft specify the terms of that licence and you have accepted it by installing and activating the OS. If it were OSX it would be the same except even more restrictive. Linux would give you a OS that can be molded to your every whim to the extent you can go so far as editing and re-compiling the kernel if you wish, but that is for a different forum.

    Back to Windows: By turning off UAC and operating as Admin, one runs a big risk of malware exploiting the system and, potentially, there is nothing ones AV software could do about it. This is fine for experienced engineers and technicians, who understand the risks and can recover from serious mis-configurations and infections.

    However, for the average user, these things are included for a very good purpose.

    There is a reason why Mac OS and Linux have malware infection rates which are lower than the pro-rata user base for Windows you know.

  18. #14
    Silver Lounger Duchess843's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrWho View Post
    Working? I stopped doing that six years ago!
    Every morning is a Two-Mug morning for me.

    Back on topic:

    Win-7 is a lot more enjoyable if you take out your software baseball bat and beat the heck out of it.

    I go berserk when Windows tells me I don't have permission to do something on the computer I built and own 100%.

    So, out of self preservation and to keep some semblance of Sanity, I first shut off UAC, with a little script.
    Then I install "Grant Full Admin Control" which is like Take Ownership on steroids.

    Then I install the "Classic Shell". That makes menu's and windows a lot more friendly.

    There's a lot more, but that would take up more space than I really want to use up on this forum.

    My entire tune-up package for Win-7 is on my web site.

    Cheers Mates!
    I found your post very interesting, I heard of some things I knew nothing about. For instance, I installed Take Ownership but will take a look at the one you suggested. If it's as good as you hinted then I'll make a quick exchange. I'm as sick & tired of Trusted Installer as you are.

    Next, where do I get Classic Shell, is that a Windows program?

    Gloria
    <img src=/S/coffeetime.gif border=0 alt=coffeetime width=32 height=48>

  19. #15
    mart44
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    I'd say not to expect Windows 7 to be the same as XP, or make comparisons between the two. Spend a good long period of time of getting used to W.7 as it comes. The differences can become accepted in the end. For instance, I've come to prefer the Windows 7 Start Menu rather than XP's cascading style menus. The Libraries work for me too.

    The situation isn't too different to when previous Microsoft operating systems were released. I can remember XP getting plenty of bad press and complaints in forum posts.

    If a text file can't be saved in the C: drive, store is on the Desktop instead, or have a folder on the Desktop for storing text files in. The Firefox shortcut not working isn't to do with the OS but as pointed out, the code wasn't quite right (this works: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe" -p).

    I believe it is possible to stop the OS being a 'nanny' if that's what's really wanted. Plenty of suggestions about that are coming up here. However, I don't think full control of the OS should be given easily or by default. Lots of people would end up in dreadful messes if that was the case. As someone who has accepted (got used to) W.7 'as is', I can say I've found the OS thoroughly workable and reliable.

    I used to think that Windows was only there to modify and make changes to, which can be a frustrating job sometimes. Perhaps it's easy to lose sight of what the OS is really all about, which is to run programs, save files and make use of the Internet. Windows 7 does all that very well for me without making any changes to it.

    Edit: as regards, "(In XP the start/run box would remember the last several commands and give me a drop down so I wouldn't have to type it again. This handy little shortcut is no longer available in win7.)". Have you got the 'Run' box ticked in the 'Customise Start Menu' options? This should enable that functionality. When enabled, look out for 'Run...' on the right-hand side of the Start Menu.
    Last edited by mart44; 2011-11-29 at 02:04.

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