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  1. #31
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    You can have a PayPal account without a credit card. All this means is that you cannot send money to someone unless you have a balance in your PayPal account. Generally it takes about 5 days to transfer money into PayPal from a bank account so this means without a balance in your PayPal account, the payee will have to wait about a week before receiving payment. The credit card allows you to pay instantly without a balance in your PayPal account. I believe PayPal has made advances in their systems to protect their users personal information, including their credit card information. I have had a PayPal account for many years with a credit card listed without any problems. I have recently removed that credit card to see if there was any other affect on my PayPal account and there is not.

    I do not believe PayPal is any more susceptible than other companies to nefarious use of their systems. In fact, because of a past problem, perhaps they are safer. If you are concerned, many credit card companies have the ability to issue one time use only numbers to use for online purchases.
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  2. #32
    5 Star Lounger
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    In this modern world I find all this concern about "privacy" to be a bit humorous. Not that I'm dismissing the concerns, because they are certainly valid ones, but because we as consumers lost our ability to be anonymous long before using the Internet became a common household thing.

    Do you now, or have you ever had an account with the local phone company? They keep boatloads of data about you and your phone calls. No, they don't formally share that data. However, phone companies were some of the earliest businesses to have their computer systems hacked.

    Do you have a grocery store or department store rewards card? They've been around long before most people even heard of the internet. Those cards get you some nice deals from time to time. They are also one of the best marketing tools ever to hit retail. They know your buying habits and they use that data to compile demographics, and share it with other marketers to build even bigger databases.

    Do you have a credit card? Look at your itemized statement. Your movements and habits can actually be tracked by following the "cookie trail" left by your credit card usage.

    There is tons of publicly accessible data about each and every one of us. Data that used to take a visit to a municipal building is increasingly available online.

    There is enough data out there that if someone took the time, they could re-assemble the known data with the anonymized data. Don't believe me? It's been done. More here.

    So Google isn't really doing anything new. Just what everyone else has been doing all along. The only way I know of to remain truly anonymous is to cut up the credit cards, drop the ISP, quit your job, lock the door and never let anyone in. Its like the old joke, the only secure computer is the one that's turned off and in a brick room with no doors or windows.
    Last edited by Doc Brown; 2012-02-03 at 13:35.
    Chuck

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    You can have a PayPal account without a credit card. All this means is that you cannot send money to someone unless you have a balance in your PayPal account. Generally it takes about 5 days to transfer money into PayPal from a bank account so this means without a balance in your PayPal account, the payee will have to wait about a week before receiving payment. The credit card allows you to pay instantly without a balance in your PayPal account.
    I believe the payee will receive payment immediately, even without a balance in your PayPal account, with an instant transfer from a verified bank account:

    PayPal's instant transfer sends funds instantaneously to the designated recipient as soon as you click "Send Money." Once you complete the transaction, PayPal initiates an electronics fund transfer (EFT) from your bank account. This process typically takes three to five business days but ultimately depends on how quickly your bank processes EFT transfers.
    How Soon After an Instant Payment Does PayPal Deduct From Your Bank Account?

    Everything I've bought this way for years always gets an instant receipt from the seller.

    Bruce

  4. #34
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Bruce,

    I was talking about a situation where you do not have a credit card on file. From the site you linked to:

    How It Works
    • PayPal's instant transfer sends funds instantaneously to the designated recipient as soon as you click "Send Money." Once you complete the transaction, PayPal initiates an electronics fund transfer (EFT) from your bank account. This process typically takes three to five business days but ultimately depends on how quickly your bank processes EFT transfers. PayPal requires a credit card to backup the instant transfer in case your bank declines the EFT transaction. Typically, banks decline EFT transactions if insufficient funds exist in the account. If your bank declines the EFT transaction, PayPal will automatically bill the credit card linked to your account.
    Without a credit card on file the instantaneous payment will not be honored. I have also done thousands of transactions on PayPal (I ran an online part time business on eBay for several years). I always felt very safe in doing so, and still do.
    Last edited by Medico; 2012-02-03 at 14:09.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    Bruce,

    I was talking about a situation where you do not have a credit card on file.
    Ah, OK. I understand now, thanks.

    Bruce

  6. #36
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    I think I would rather have my credit card stolen from paypal than my banking account number. It's like a Debit card, once the transactions is made, the money is gone and they could drain your account before you find out that someone is using your bank account number or debit card. With a credit card, you can contest the charges and you don't immediately have money taken directly from your bank account giving you the option of contesting the charges and still have money in your bank account while they conduct an investigation and change your bank account or debit card number to prevent them from making further transactions. I always use a credit card when doing transactions for this reason since a debit card or bank account transfer can be used by someone to drain your account but with a credit card, you still have money in your account, you are just contesting the charges that you didn't authorize and only have to pay if you really did authorize these charges.

  7. #37
    New Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erniek View Post
    If you want to be extra sure that in the [unlikely] event of Amazon getting hacked you can make an order setup a credit card and then after payment is confirmed you can go back and delete\remove the card once again
    That's exactly what I used to do. But, after receiving a Kindle Fire I've discovered you must keep a credit card on Amazon. As I found out the hard way, you can't get any free anything (books, apps, whatever) without one. Hm...
    My previous and usual account on Amazon is now all intertwined with the Kindle Fire account! Not a good state of affairs.

  8. #38
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    In a slightly different twist, not wanting to use my bank account at paypal I always switch to credit card before paying somebody. It's amusing to see that the payment is backed up by the same credit card.

  9. #39
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  10. #40
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    In theory, the involvement of the EU Article 29 Working Party and invocation of the EU data protection laws is welcome - it certainly leans much more to protecting the privacy and rights of its citizens than laws in other parts of the world.

    However, before we blindly accept that everything the EU data protection and privacy requirements gives us is good, please recall the ongoing fiasco that is the EU cookie directive...... From May this year it will be an offense for any website hosted within the EU to drop any cookies that are not critical for the operation of the website onto the user machine without informed consent. Cookie blocking settings in browsers is not deemed informed consent becasue this is inferred from the user settings and inferred consent is not acceptable, as this document explains. To see how this might work, take a look at the ICO website, which incidentally does not give opt-out option!

    In short, hopefully the involvement of the Working Party will lead to an open examination, clarification and monitoring the proposed changes at Google, but the recent EU track record on detailed technical implementation has been somewhat less than inspiring.

  11. #41
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    I don't want to be an alarmist but...

    I think there are still some unanswered questions regarding google's new security policy. I thank Google for making their security policy more simple than the privacy policies of other Internet sites which can be several pages long and would make great bedtime reading but there's some questions I still have. BTW, sorry to drag on this thread with my questions. I think someone else brought up concerns about Android based phones. I currently own an Android based phone and have contacts that I don't want shared with other parties because they (like myself) are trying to avoid having their Cell Phone number end up in the hands of Telemarketers. With an incident a few years back that I had with a telemarketer before I had an android based cell phone who called me repeatedly at least once every hour for most of the day even after I told them I wasn't interested and to remove my number from their contact list, they continued to call and I used call blocking software to block their number but then they began calling from several other numbers to bypass my blocking and unidentified numbers. Long story short, for nearly a month I averaged 15 calls a day and they kept calling even though all the calls were sent straight to voicemail where they wouldn't leave a message. I'm concerned that people on my contact list could find themselves targeted by telemarketers and if I were to call an android based phone, I can still end up on the list if I call someone who has an Android based phone.
    Will my contacts and their numbers be shared with google and even if I buy a non-android based phone in the future but call someone who has an android based phone, will my number be shared with Google and third party sites?
    In addition, I've used my Android phone to access other email accounts. Will Google be sharing my email accounts?

    I also downloaded apps for my Android Phone that I didn't even know Google was involved with including my Local Department of Transportation commuter app that I use to check on road conditions that I found out was created by Google. Will my search information be shared by google? I had to do some research to find out that this app happened to be created by google.

    One of my email accounts uses Postini which happens to be owned by Google as their Spam filter. Does this mean that any email in this account could be archived by google even though this email account isn't owned by google but incoming mail is scanned by Postini which is owned by google?

    I'm not trying to be paranoid but a lot of the people I contact on my cell phone are confidential and the emails I receive often come from co-workers and we have a company policy requiring us to take actions to prevent work email addresses from becoming publically available information. So I'm required to do whatever I can to safeguard this information and after finding that one of my email accounts uses a google product to filter spam, it's possible these emails could be shared by google and email addresses from my employer could be divulged to companies which is a violation of our companies privacy policy.

    Also, regarding paypal, is there a way to remove a bank account and keep your credit card? As I mentioned in a previous post, I a little concerned that bank account information stored on Paypal could be stolen by a hacker and there is not much protection in the even someone obtains my bank account and runs up charges. They could continue to purchase items with my bank account number and drain my account and it would be hard to track them down since they probably wouldn't be dumb enough to use my paypal account for these transactions. At least with a credit card, you don't automatically have money withdrawn from your account that you may never see again.

  12. #42
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    I think there are still some unanswered questions regarding google's new security policy.
    Perhaps a review of the new Google Privacy policy may give you some answers: for example there is a commitment never to divulge your data to a third party - So according to their T's&C's they won't be selling your email or contacts to telemarketers.

    Of course that doesn't stop anybody hacking your account, but the same risk is present on any hosted environment. The only way to mitigate that is to spread your exposure over several services using one for spam filtering such as Postini, another for contacts, a third for calendar services etc.....

    The Privacy Principles FAQ's and your own Google Dashboard are excellent resources. If those still leave unanswered questions, try approaching Google themselves.

  13. #43
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    I had been using scroogle.org as a search option to Google. Recently, Google has been making it impossible to do searches from scroogle. After getting the message numerous times that Google was blocking them I wound up making Yahoo my default.

    Intentional? I don't know.

    Using different search providers will make it more difficult to track every search you make, no matter how innocuous it is.
    MJN

  14. #44
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    Went to the link given earlier in this thread for changing credit card info on Amazon.

    When they asked for my whole social security number, I closed the page.

    It is better to just find the place where you can delete the credit card info in your Account settings. I did that and now there are none on file.

  15. #45
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    Gmail by proxy?

    i use an email account provided to me by my phone company. about a year ago, they announced that they would use Gmail -- so we all had to make up a Gmail addy. i still use my old address, but by going thru google, does this mean i am being 'watched' by google too?

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