External Hard Drives some questions

[Just Plain Fred]

Apologies for yet another long posting, and many thanks for all your help.

Hi George,
I'll try my best to answere your questions...

1. Plug and Play, is on my "Advanced" BIOS screen Haven't a clue if it's not somewhere in BIOS... on your system

2. You should have you OS Hard Drive ( C: ) set up for Primary ..and any others as Secondary (Slave)

3. UDMA "Ultra Direct Memory Access"

4. Image Mounting ...Macrium will let you "Mount" (look at) an Image When asked to do so... A screen will give you a choice to select a drive letter ...After choosing one (From Drop Down) the now "Virtual HD" will appear in windows explorer as another HD with the letter that you gave to it. You then can explore all , just as a real HD... Files\ folders, even copy them... When finished you can then "Un Mount" by right clicking on the HD and choosing "Un Mount Macrium Image"

5. Macrium 4 vs 5 .... If Version 4 doesn't see the WD Image from the recovery disk it would be worth a try to go on to Version 5 ...I have "Burned" several Recovery disks on 700 MB CD's, both Linux and WinPE's ....They fit..On 700MB CD's... you might have some bad CD's... Macrium will almost automatically create a Version 5 "Win PE" disk for you ...Just follow the prompts and let it download the 1.7 GB file from Windows ( just direct the download to place it in some new folder you create )... (WAIK...... Windows automated installer Kit)... Try to boot the Recovery CD from your set up now and see if it finds the WD drive Image... Also you can copy the Image to another drive or partition to check if Macrium will find it.

For your first try check whatever Recovery disk that you have now and boot it up ...Put the Image (copy) in several places just for a test not just on the WD. Hope this is of some help

Regards Fred

[georgelee]

Fred,
Another unsuccessful attempt to test the image!

You said that anything other that the primary drive should be set to slave. Could you confirm that what I now have is correct?

DRIVE CONFIGURAION
Primary Master Drive ............... Hard disk
Primary Slave Drive.................. unknown device (should be WD drive?)
Secondary Master Drive............ CD-ROM device
Secondary Slave Drive ............. off (WD drive?)

Hard Disk Drive Sequence

1. System BIOS Boot Drive
2. USB Device not installed

Boot Sequence

1. IDE CD-ROM
2. Hard Disk Drive C
3. Diskette.

After making these changes, reinstalling the original HD and switching on I had a scare when the screen said ‘Primary disc not found’. Whilst pondering what to do it then said ‘Press F1 to continue’. This happens each time the PC is switched on.

Whilst in the BIOS I had another look for Plug and Play. However, Search came up with P&P plug-ins for Firefox and Real Player, so that should be OK.

I also had another look at Bart PE, which after all is the one they recommend for XP. I was getting confused between Windows PE and Bart PE when I quoted;

“you may only install and use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT if you are an active Microsoft Software Assurance Member ("SAM") for the systems product pool or servers product pool, etc”

But after downloading and installing the software I was unable to burn it to disc, as it asked for information I can not supply.

You also suggested copying the image to one or more other places, to see if Macrium could locate it. At 37GB the only possibility was my C drive, which left c.5 GB free space.
I was forgetting that once the new HD was installed the copy was now laying on my desk, sp that was fruitless.

Once again, after installing the new HD the locations listed were drives C and D, both empty as the rescue disk ejects at that point.

I could try Macrium 5, which you say might be better able to see the image, but if again unable to burn a rescue disc there seems little point in it. I suspect it is the hidden part of the WD software preventing My Book being recognised by Macrium, as you originally suggested.

Unless the BIOS settings are incorrect, there seem to be only two viable alternatives.

1. Download the WD Smartware and sell the drive for whatever it will fetch. Then forget about imaging until I get a new PC. WD claim My Book to be the world’s fasted selling external drive, so it should find a buyer.

2.Download the WD Smartware, partition My Book, reinstall Acronis True Image WD Edition and give it another go. Provided I only connect it to the PC when making an image it should avoid slowing down the PC. But I seem to recall there being problems with testing the image.

At the moment I favour the former option.

Fred, special thanks you for mentoring me with this, whilst not forgetting the other contributors. It is very much appreciated, and it what makes the Lounge such a great facility.

Best Wishes

George

[Just Plain Fred]

Another unsuccessful attempt to test the image!

You said that anything other that the primary drive should be set to slave. Could you confirm that what I now have is correct?

DRIVE CONFIGURAION
Primary Master Drive ............... Hard disk
Primary Slave Drive.................. unknown device (should be WD drive?)
Secondary Master Drive............ CD-ROM device
Secondary Slave Drive ............. off (WD drive?)

Hard Disk Drive Sequence

1. System BIOS Boot Drive
2. USB Device not installed

Boot Sequence

1. IDE CD-ROM
2. Hard Disk Drive C
3. Diskette.

Hi George..Have a "Read " Master \ Slave It may be of more help, as i have SATA Hard Drives ..(no ribbon connectors or Jumpers)

Still The same problem ... Your Macrium boot disk will see your main Hard Drive ...but not the "External WD "..Correct?

When you plug in the WD after your Booted up Does your PC "Sound Off" and then become "visible" using Explorer? (Plug and Play).. You should have a look see at your "Device Manager" and check the USB settings (Right click Properties) See Screen shot.

In the "Hard drive sequence "...USB not installed...do you have an Option to enable?.. Also "Plug and Play " Is a way that your PC can Discover (detect) new hardware on it's own after connecting it ... Nothing to do with FireFox or RealPlayer...

I have no idea of what "SAM" is or what it is that your referring to ? Or how this relates if you already have a working boot disk.

You have to have a Image somewhere that Macrium can find ( working HD internal or external) .. If your HD's are empty , the Recovery Disk can't work. That's the reason that i asked you to make sure with your old setup that the boot disk will at least see your main HD...( good first step)

As far as XP is concerned... Version 5 with the "Win PE \ WAIK" works just fine..on my XP Pro .. The only thing is that you don't have enough room to download the 1.7 GB file that is needed... so seems that your going to have to stick with the Linux Recovery Disk.. .. I need to think on this a little more ...post back with any new "Info" ...

PS: Is there any room on your "Ribbon cable" ( extra plug) to install another HD ? even if it's just Hanging out in space.

[georgelee]

Thanks Fred.

You've given me quite a lot to look into, so I'll tackle it in the morning, after I get back from the dentist.

Regards
George

[Just Plain Fred]

George,
Hello... Good news ..I think...This AM while doing my run, "Ming the Merciless" ( the guy who works on problems in my head without me being aware) ...downloaded some possible solutions to my conscious side.. here goes...

1. The problem is probably that at boot time your PC wont read an external HD for whatever reason (some other problem).Nothing to do with "WD"

2. Possible solution.... Boot up your OS and run Macrium ...Make a Image and burn it to DVD's ...Might need a few...

3. Check (mount) them using Macrium program not quite sure how this works ..never tried it..If they look OK , Then...

4. Replace the HD with you new hardware.. and reboot with the Recovery Disk... Once the Macrium Program loads up.. it will self eject. But will still be loaded and running.

5. Load the first Image DVD into your PC and point Macrium to the Image. ... If this works Click through the screens and after the "Proceed button" it will start to place the Image on your new HD ...and will ask you to input the rest of your DVD Image as needed.. Regards Fred

[georgelee]

Thanks Fred.

It’s reassuring to know that you are thinking about my problem even when out running.

There is no time to try this today, and I shall be out most of tomorrow, so it will probably have to wait until the weekend, but meanwhile I answer your previous questions below. They may even lead to a simpler solution.

Q. Still The same problem ... Your Macrium boot disk will see your main Hard Drive ...but not the "External WD "..Correct?

A. Correct

Q, When you plug in the WD after your Booted up Does your PC "Sound Off" and then become "visible" using Explorer? (Plug and Play)..

A. I never have speakers switched on unless listening to something, as assorted beeps, squeaks and burps irritate me. WD doesn’t become visible when booting with Macrium.

However, you write ‘When you plug in the WD after booting up’. Could this be the problem, as I put the rescue disk in the DVD drive before closing down?

Q. You should have a look see at your "Device Manager" and check the USB settings (Right click Properties) See Screen shot.

A. Not quite the same as yours, but this means nothing to me.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Owner/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]
Q. In the "Hard drive sequence "...USB not installed...do you have an Option to enable?..

My mistake! It just reads USB, and the only change possible is to put it above System BIOS. As there were too many screens to enclose screen shots I wrote down the details in abbreviated form, and when typing assumed it had said not installed. Sorry!

Q. I have no idea of what "SAM" is or what it is that your referring to ? Or how this relates if you already have a working boot disk.

A. Not really relevant. It was part of the MS conditions for using Windows PE, quoted on Bart’s site, which I had misread and assumed I could not use Bart PE.

Q. If your HD's are empty , the Recovery Disk can't work. That's the reason that i asked you to make sure with your old setup that the boot disk will at least see your main HD...( good first step)

A. In another thread I asked how one tested that an image would work when needed, and was advised to get another HD for the purpose. You appear to be saying it will not work unless there is already an OS on the HD, so they are useless in the event of complete HD failure. This would need to be tested when I have plenty of time, because if the image is corrupted I would have to restore everything from scratch.

The only thing is that you don't have enough room to download the 1.7 GB file that is needed... so seems that your going to have to stick with the Linux Recovery Disk

With my new DVD Writer that is no problem.

PS: Is there any room on your "Ribbon cable" ( extra plug) to install another HD ? even if it's just Hanging out in space.

The ribbon is only a few inches long, but there is another 4 pin plug (power?) so presumably also a data plug buried under the main one. Thus it would only be possible with the side panel removed and the HD hanging, probably inside the casing. The risks of having a short circuit seem high.

George

[Just Plain Fred]

George,

Just wanted to clear up something ...Yes Macrium will work (Load) even if you don't have a OS (Blank HD) ...Just that you need a Image that it can see..to work.

You should explore if you have another paralell cable hidden somewhere ..As this would give you a place to store your Image (another HD)...Just another option...

Think that the way to proceed ( for now) is with a Image placed on DVD's as your system can see the CD\DVD RW's... I checked my old Linux Recovery CD and also the WinPE disk.... They both give you an opportunity to load the Image DVD set.. so if you burn a Image to DVD's you will be able to install it to your new HD Regards Fred

[georgelee]

Fred,

Have you any experience of putting an image on a set of DVDs? I ask having run into difficulty.

Macrium successfully burnt the first disc, I inserted another, then a pop-up asked what I wanted to do, with ‘burn disk using Nero’ selected. Not having been asked this before burning the first disk, and deciding that it was better for Macrium to control the process rather than Nero, I closed it.

That appears to have been a mistake, as nothing happened then. Eventually deciding to remove and replace the DVD, the drawer would not open. Pushing a paper-clip in the emergency open hole had no effect other than creating a grating and grinding noise from the drive. With Macrium and the DVD writer not responding it was only possible to close via Task Manager.

After the reboot, three more attempts failed, each saying the DVD was full. Testing my remaining few discs, properties showed each as free space and used space both 0 bytes.
Not believing this to be possible, I successfully backed up all my data – excluding photos and videos – on to one of these supposedly full DVDs using Nero Smartstart.

Have you any idea what can be wrong?

Tomorrow I must buy another spindle of disks, but I don’t think that can be the problem – disk 1 was OK, and then it was possible to make a normal backup using an apparently faulty disk. It’s puzzling!

George

[Just Plain Fred]

[QUOTE=georgelee;846074]

Have you any experience of putting an image on a set of DVDs? I ask having run into difficulty.

Macrium successfully burnt the first disc, I inserted another, then a pop-up asked what I wanted to do, with ‘burn disk using Nero’ selected. Not having been asked this before burning the first disk, and deciding that it was better for Macrium to control the process rather than Nero, I closed it.


Hi George,
No, i have not used the DVD function on any of the Imaging programs ...However there are many that do,... and successfully ..Sounds like you have "Nero" set up to be the Default "Burning Program" And when you said no ....Macrium Version 4's (as far as i know ) doesn't have one (burning program)...so....the program just came to a halt. Just to be on the safe side .. Let Nero or whatever program you are using... erase all your disks before using them ..unless they are new. Try this again and let Macrium Backup all, and use whatever burning program you choose...Figure that your image will be approximately 40% to 60 % smaller in size than your actual OS...So you can give a rough guess as to how many disks that you will be needing @ about 4.5GB per disk.. Keep in mind that even new disks can be bad right from the "geko" Regards Fred

PS: Make sure that you have or purchase DVD+/-RW's not just DVD+\-R's

[georgelee]

Is there any reason for using rewritable discs?

I never buy them as they are less reliable, and the first disc that Macrium created appears to be fine. The trouble started when I chose to close Nero during the process. I just don't understand why subsequent disks show no free space, and yet are able to produce a 3.29GB backup, which I have examined in detail, opening 10% of the files in each folder, and it's all OK.

Must go to bed now, it's getting late.

Regards

George

[Just Plain Fred]

Is there any reason for using rewritable discs?

I never buy them as they are less reliable,

George,
It's just personal preference... I usually mess up making a DVD \CD , or decide to make another version etc. I then can erase them as needed...Like with the trying out the different versions of the Macrium Recovery Disks.. Never had any trouble with either ..other than the occasional "dud" ...So It's your choice... Regards Fred

[georgelee]

Fred,
Monday I bought 25 DVDs, and bearing in mind my previous failure to copy the image, and that you use RW as you often mess up, decided to buy 10 DVD-RW also.

God, aren’t they slow. Apart from the fact that each one had to be formatted – the reason I always buy DVD-R rather than +R - they started recording at 6 – 9 Mb/sec (or is it Kb/sec?) and worked up to around 50, less than half the speed of DVD-R with Macrium. Some 2.5 hours later, inserting disc 8, which should have been the last, brought up a message ‘device error, backup aborted’.

Why did it have to be the last one, wasting so much time? By now it was almost time to go to the theatre.

Yesterday I considered the position. ‘Device error’ suggests writer failure, although a faulty disc seemed more probable, or even that Macrium didn’t like me switching from DVR-RW to DVD-R for the last disc.

You may recall that my DVD writer still works, except when recording DVDs which it thinks are CDs. After buying an oem Lite-on, only the software had been installed, as that solved the problem, so I decided it might be time to try the new one. Also, I wanted to try connecting the WD drive AFTER using the rescue disc, as in your directions, and in addition I recalled your remarks about unmounting an image after mounting it.

Hopeful that this three pronged approach might overcome the problem, I connected the WD drive. But clicking on the latest image brought up a ‘serious error, unable to open’ message. I deleted the image and made a new one.

The next issue was the Lite-on writer. The jumper was set at slave, whereas on the LG it is unmarked. If I still have the original box with the installation instructions it is somewhere in the attic, and not feeling inclined to hunt for it, decided to install the new one without changing the jumper. Installation was difficult as always, because a mass of cables run where one’s hands need to be, and there is the risk of disconnecting one of them. Job done, the HDD was changed and (almost) everything reconnected.

Switching on, only a box with red, blue, etc appeared. Deciding the jumper was wrongly set I reinstalled the original LG writer with the same result. Initial dismay that everything was kaputt was followed by the recognition that I am becoming senile. On both occasions when reconnecting the PC I had omitted to connect the monitor, on the grounds that it’s fiddly and I would not be using the PC, just testing the image. Unbelievable!

Connecting the monitor, then the WD drive brought the same result as previously, a request to select the location of the image from drives C or D, plus the opportunity to make a network connection.

By the time I had reconnected the original HDD most of the evening had elapsed, but it was good to be back to normal.

I’ve had enough. Imaging is not worth the hassle, at least with a WD My Book drive. I shall reinstall the Smartware software and attempt to sell the bl**dy thing.

George

[Just Plain Fred]

By the time I had reconnected the original HDD most of the evening had elapsed, but it was good to be back to normal.

I’ve had enough. Imaging is not worth the hassle, at least with a WD My Book drive. I shall reinstall the Smartware software and attempt to sell the bl**dy thing.

George,
Sorry for not replying sooner ..Had to think a bit..Seems that you have two basic problems.

1. That your PC can't see an "External HD" at boot time ...It can see it ( the WD) while the system is "Up" and you can read\write to it. ..So the problem is not with Macrium. Most likely a "Plug and Play" or "BIOS" issue

2. Your CD\DVD RW is "Wonky"

My thinking ( can't say for sure at this point) is that another External HD probably would do the same ...no matter what brand or type..

I would connect the new CD\DVD RW and get it working first (with new drivers) .. Then check for spare HD connections in your PC ..If there is one you could then proceed down a different path of trouble shooting

Keep in mind that Macrium works ...It doesn't "Hate You"... and Imaging \ Cloning are good things. I wouldn't give up ...just think how much you have learned about your PC ( good thing also).. "Keep at it Mate" Regards Fred

[georgelee]

Fred,
Thanks for your words of encouragement, but I don’t feel inclined to spend any more time on this with my current PC, a view reinforced by your comment that I’m likely to encounter the same problem with any other ext. drive.

I was so cheesed off Tuesday evening that I decided not to bother with imaging again until after replacing this machine, and it has since occurred to me that will probably be
necessary within 12 months or so, in order to avoid finding that only Windows 8 is available –it sounds more like a toy than a working computer.

Bye the way, there is no reason to suppose the new DVD writer is ‘wonky’, it was just my stupidity in not connecting the monitor. Maybe the first sign of Alzheimer’s Disease.

I must thank you again for all your assistance. Do you experts get paid for this, or is it just a laudable desire to help others?

Sincere regards

George

[Just Plain Fred]

I must thank you again for all your assistance. Do you experts get paid for this, or is it just a laudable desire to help others?

Hi George ,
We Loungers do this because we like "fooling" with PC's and software...( No $$$) It's kinda "Paying it forward". Because ...we have all had to have started someplace ...and been helped along the way by fellow loungers, and can relate to the frustration of not knowing or understanding these contraptions ... I'm sure that someday you will join in and pass along something that you found out ( usually the hard way like me) to another whose ready to deep six the thing...Ming the Merciless and I have enjoyed working with you ...Regards Fred