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  1. #1
    5 Star Lounger ibe98765's Avatar
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    Patriot TORQX2 SSD poor performance

    A couple of weeks back I replaced my old rotating boot drive (with a few other partitions) with the TORQX2 64MB SATA2 SSD. I am running WinXP SP3 in IDE mode. I cannot switch to AHCI, so please don't bring that up. I can't spare the time to do a complete rebuild of WinXP, which would be required to switch to AHCI. And my mobo maker is defunct (ABIT), so I doubt that I could get the drivers working anyway.

    The performance problems I am seeing is copying files around in the SSD itself. Copying to or from the SSD from/to revolving disk works OK. The SSD is partitioned into 4 separate logical drives (C:, D:, E:, I.

    I don't understand why there should be problems with SSD copying. Theoretically, nothing should have to be physically copied, unless partitioning on an SSD fences off sections of the SSD for each partition (which Patriot support says does not happen). SO if there is no physical copying, then all that should be done is updating the MFT which should happen VERY FAST! But that is not what I am seeing.

    I have put together some screenshots doing test copies of a 2GB FOLDER with 300+ sub-folders and a 750MB single file. Here they are:

    700MB copy
    http://i.minus.com/i77NweNfHihsN.jpg

    2GB copy
    http://i.minus.com/iLPZjVaMAWmgB.jpg

    Are there others here with a similar profile (WinXP SP3, non-AHCI, SSD with multiple partitions and a mix of SSD & revolving disks) from SSD makers other than Patriot?

    If so, do you see similar problems when copying problems of similar sizes to those above within the SSD vs. copying to/from revolving disk?
    Last edited by ibe98765; 2012-02-11 at 17:19. Reason: Corrected 750GB to 750MB

  2. #2
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibe98765 View Post
    Theoretically, nothing should have to be physically copied, ...
    Where did you get that idea from?

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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    Do you realy need all those partitions on that one SSD? Why not use the old drive and set up the partitions there?
    ...or go out and get a 1TB internal drive for those partition needs.

    0 Do a firmware update on the drive right out of the box.
    1 In order to get the optimal performance, a clean install should be done and the drive set up to run in AHCI mode.
    2 Ensure TRIM has been set up for Windows XP as the os will not support it natively.
    3 Avoid dumping a whole lot of partitions onto an SSD, if any at all. Go with extra internal drives instead for what you need to partition.

    You'll take a performance hit by doing what you are doing with all those partitions, especially if TRIM was not enabled and your still running off IDE mode.

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    5 Star Lounger ibe98765's Avatar
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    Do you realy need all those partitions on that one SSD? Why not use the old drive and set up the partitions there?
    ...or go out and get a 1TB internal drive for those partition needs.

    - Yes, I do need the partitions the way they are setup. That is how I segment my data. WHY should the number of partitions be a problem? Are SSD drives deficient in handling partitions? And I have 3 other rotating drives, each of which are partitioned also. AND the old rive is gone. It was starting to fail.

    0 Do a firmware update on the drive right out of the box.

    -There are no firmware updates for this drive.

    1 In order to get the optimal performance, a clean install should be done and the drive set up to run in AHCI mode.

    - I am running WinXP and it would take me 3 weeks to do a rebuild and get everything back to normal again. So a rebuild is not going to happen. And what does AHCI have to do with anything anyway? Performance is good going from the SSD to rotating disk or vice versa. The only problem is with data movement exclusively on the SSD.

    2 Ensure TRIM has been set up for Windows XP as the os will not support it natively.

    - Patriot does not yet have a TRIM utility for this drive. They are working on it.

    3 Avoid dumping a whole lot of partitions onto an SSD, if any at all. Go with extra internal drives instead for what you need to partition.

    You'll take a performance hit by doing what you are doing with all those partitions, especially if TRIM was not enabled and your still running off IDE mode.

    -WHY? WHY does paritioning cause a problem with SSD's? Can you provide any technical reference for this contention?

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    5 Star Lounger ibe98765's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satrow View Post
    Where did you get that idea from?
    Because it makes common sense and I used to be programmer so I generally understand how code works and how work is coded.

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    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibe98765 View Post
    Because it makes common sense and I used to be programmer so I generally understand how code works and how work is coded.
    So if you have an SSD with 4 partitions, you copy a file located in one partition to a 2nd partition, the free space on the 2nd partition doesn't change?

    Doesn't make any sense to me.

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    5 Star Lounger ibe98765's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satrow View Post
    So if you have an SSD with 4 partitions, you copy a file located in one partition to a 2nd partition, the free space on the 2nd partition doesn't change?

    Doesn't make any sense to me.
    I'm going by what Patriot support told me - that partition space was not fenced off. But then maybe they didn't understand what I was asking.

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    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibe98765 View Post
    I'm going by what Patriot support told me - that partition space was not fenced off. But then maybe they didn't understand what I was asking.
    Most likely

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    I also think partitions on an SSD that isn't all that big to begin with is a bad idea unless you can keep a significant amount of free space available at all times in all partitions (excluding all the hidden file consumption as well). SSDs don't like it when they run out of "maneuver space" and the only time I've ever had problems with an SSD it was when space got down to like 3.5 gigs available; it got really slow. As soon as I freed up space, fast again. SSDs are random access so you want the whole drive available for random access if possible.
    And you don't need AHCI, command queing, while still of some merit in SSDs, was designed to optimize received read/write commands by minimizing read/write head movement in spinning platter drives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ibe98765 View Post
    A couple of weeks back I replaced my old rotating boot drive (with a few other partitions) with the TORQX2 64MB SATA2 SSD. I am running WinXP SP3 in IDE mode. I cannot switch to AHCI, so please don't bring that up. I can't spare the time to do a complete rebuild of WinXP, which would be required to switch to AHCI. And my mobo maker is defunct (ABIT), so I doubt that I could get the drivers working anyway.

    The performance problems I am seeing is copying files around in the SSD itself. Copying to or from the SSD from/to revolving disk works OK. The SSD is partitioned into 4 separate logical drives (C:, D:, E:, I.

    I don't understand why there should be problems with SSD copying. Theoretically, nothing should have to be physically copied, unless partitioning on an SSD fences off sections of the SSD for each partition (which Patriot support says does not happen). SO if there is no physical copying, then all that should be done is updating the MFT which should happen VERY FAST! But that is not what I am seeing.

    I have put together some screenshots doing test copies of a 2GB FOLDER with 300+ sub-folders and a 750GB single file. Here they are:

    700MB copy
    http://i.minus.com/i77NweNfHihsN.jpg

    2GB copy
    http://i.minus.com/iLPZjVaMAWmgB.jpg

    Are there others here with a similar profile (WinXP SP3, non-AHCI, SSD with multiple partitions and a mix of SSD & revolving disks) from SSD makers other than Patriot?

    If so, do you see similar problems when copying problems of similar sizes to those above within the SSD vs. copying to/from revolving disk?
    How did you get the 750GB single file on to a 64GB SSD. Would like to know how you did that magic.
    Clive

    All typing errors are my own work and subject to patents pending. Except errors by the spell checker. And that has its own patients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by curiousclive View Post
    How did you get the 750GB single file on to a 64GB SSD. Would like to know how you did that magic.
    Also you need to get trim working which requires a driver for XP if available. Other wise the SSD will soon slow down.
    Clive

    All typing errors are my own work and subject to patents pending. Except errors by the spell checker. And that has its own patients.

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    Quote Originally Posted by satrow View Post
    So if you have an SSD with 4 partitions, you copy a file located in one partition to a 2nd partition, the free space on the 2nd partition doesn't change?

    Doesn't make any sense to me.
    It is complete nonsense to think you can put half a pint into a 1 pint jug and still have space for a pint in the same jug.
    Clive

    All typing errors are my own work and subject to patents pending. Except errors by the spell checker. And that has its own patients.

  14. #13
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiousclive View Post
    It is complete nonsense to think you can put half a pint into a 1 pint jug and still have space for a pint in the same jug.
    I know, that's why I made that comment ... pay attention

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    5 Star Lounger ibe98765's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satrow View Post
    So if you have an SSD with 4 partitions, you copy a file located in one partition to a 2nd partition, the free space on the 2nd partition doesn't change?

    Doesn't make any sense to me.
    I apologize. I was getting COPY mixed up with MOVE in my mind. Don't know why, but something stopped connecting for me.

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    5 Star Lounger ibe98765's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiousclive View Post
    How did you get the 750GB single file on to a 64GB SSD. Would like to know how you did that magic.
    As I believe Mark Twain said "Common sense ins't all that common".

    Did it ever cross your minds that 750GB HAD TO BE a typing mistake and that it should have said 750MB? No, of course it wouldn't. It's easier to post some snark.

    P.S. I corrected the post to show 750MB. Everyone happy now? Great. Let's move on.

    The original question still exists. Doesn't anyone here have an SSD installed and is willing to run a few similar tests to mine to see how their performance compares to a rotating disk? If for nothing else than your own curiosity?

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