Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    18
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    "Access denied" Why wasn't this fixed in Win 7 ?

    In Windows XP, when you wanted to do something with a file or folder, you sometimes got the message thatthat was impossible because it was being used by another program, butdidn't tell you what to do about it. In Windows Vista, theusers/security/permissions/ownership organization was worse and in Windows 7 it looks uncomfortably similar to that of Vista.

    In my user folder I want to delete a folder in the Local Settings folder. After insistance from mypart Windows would finally admit that there is such a folder and it shows as a shortcut icon. When I try to open it I get
    "C:\Users\Frank\Local Settings is not accessible.
    Access is denied."

    In properties of that folder there are 4 group or usernames,
    - Everyone
    - SYSTEM
    - Frank (Frank-PC\Frank)
    - Administrators(Frank-PC\Administrators)
    Who of those represents me, I don't know. I suspect either the third or fourth.

    Except for 'Everyone' it seems they should have full control (but no special permissions) and except for'Everyone' permissions are greyed out so that they can't be changed.Apparently SYSTEM was owner of the folder, so I changed that toAdministrators (Frank-PC\Administrators), which didn't help and I can't change ownership back to SYSTEM. I mad Frank-PC\Frank owner,but that didn't help either. I tried giving permissions to 'Everyone', but Windows clearly disliked that.

    Apparently there is a program called 'Lockhunter', but a locked folder is supposed to be acomompanied by alock icon, so I din't try that. The folder C:/Users/Frankis locked though. I meddled a bit with the properties of that folder,to no avail, but I didn't change it's ownership (SYSTEM is the owner) because I wouldn't know how to undo the change.

    I disabled User Account Control, but that didn't help either. So I reenabled it.

    I tried the following advice fromandy103 from another forum :
    "You could try the following steps A " > " indicates Next Start > Control Panel >System & Security > Administrative Tools > Local SecurityPolicy Click Local Policies > User Rights Assignment look for the policy "Take ownership of files and other objects" Doubleclick the policy Click "Add user or Group" Enter your username > Check Names Click "OK" twice Close al lwindows until you are back at the desktop Navigate to "Run"Start > All Programs > Accesories > Run Type without quotes"gpupdate" It should work now"
    I could follow the instructions, but it didn't help.

    In the thread forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=259880 ThePCDoc made a suggestion that worked. Apparently if you dig deep enough in thesecurity settings of a folder, you may find that 'Everyone' is denied read/write permission and that denial supercedes the permissions the user has. But how then can 'SYSTEM' read and write to that folder if that is the case ?


    I don't see why it is said that Windows 7 is better than Vista. It seems to be plagued with about the same problems. This problem already existed in Vista. Why wasn't it fixed? Windows 7 is a disappointment so far.

  2. #2
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    4,752
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked 650 Times in 573 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Amoranemix View Post
    ... but I didn't change it's ownership (SYSTEM is the owner) because I wouldn't know how to undo the change.
    Not sure why you would care about being unable to undo that if you had already decided that this is a folder which you need to delete.

    Bruce

  3. #3
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    This is not a problem or failure with Win 7. The Local Settings folder is not actually a folder but a junction point for legacy apps. You can Google Junction Points to read about them. All the folders with what appear to be shortcut arrows on them are not users accesible because they are not folders and are only accesible by the system when older legacy apps have to access the system, or something like that.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  4. #4
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    St Louis, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    23,592
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 1,059 Times in 928 Posts
    You have changed the View settings to display protected operating system files. In Windows 7 "Local Settings" is a junction point not a shortcut and is a protected operating system file. It is there only for compatability with older programs that are not aware of the folder structure changes in Windows 7. For a particular user the path is C:\Users\username\Appdata\Local. See post #21 in http://windowssecrets.com/forums/sho...=user+profiles for a document that may help explain the Windows 7 folder structure.

    Joe

  5. #5
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    330
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Here's a link on junction points. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...(v=vs.85).aspx

    Early-on I was told by loungers here NOT to delete any folders I couldn't get in to -- if I happened to be able to get into them.

    I do understand about worrying that you can't undo a change you make - for instance if you "take ownership" of a folder so you can get into it and look around, and decide later that maybe that was something you shouldn't have done and you want to give the ownership back (that is, no longer "own" it), you are afraid you won't be able to do that. I feel the same way about making changes when it comes to this "policy" stuff which rules who can do what with what folder.

    At any rate, no matter what happens, if a folder is inaccessible to you now, it is not a folder you can dare to delete. This is true even if you *think* it should be deleted. Don't change its name, don't take anything out of it if you figure out a way to get into it, don't do anything at all.

    I did take ownership of one of those folders, by the way, and yes there is stuff in it. It may be called fake stuff, mirror stuff, "just pointers" to stuff that is really elsewhere, or whatever you want to say about it. But there's stuff in there - folders, subfolders, sub-subfolders and so on right now to files.

    I would not even *consider* getting near the delete key for any of it. I might totally mess up something and never get it fixed. Like some program couldn't find its pieces and parts and then what???

    At any rate, my urge to look in there now that I've done it a couple times is just about zero. Funny how things change <g>.

    Its just the very idea of being locked out that infuriated me, I guess.
    Last edited by kelliann1; 2012-02-23 at 16:40.

  6. #6
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Amoranemix View Post

    I don't see why it is said that Windows 7 is better than Vista. It seems to be plagued with about the same problems. This problem already existed in Vista. Why wasn't it fixed? Windows 7 is a disappointment so far.
    "A",
    Hello...As far as taking "Ownership" and granting "Full control".... Nothing has changed ... In XP, Vista and now "7" you have to ( when using the "Properties" ) route go through the same steps ...If you don't do them in the correct way ..."It ain't Happin". Windows is quite picky and will deliberately try to confuse you ..EX: "greyed out check boxes" that really can be checked ... If you want to explore this... post back, and i will step by step show you how to "Take Ownership" and "Grant Full control". Just give me a folder \ file \ registry entry and will go through it. Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  7. #7
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by kelliann1 View Post


    Its just the very idea of being locked out that infuriated me, I guess.
    kelliann1,
    Hello... The fact is that you can remove, open, or delete anything that you want, on any OS...(if you know how) The question is do you want to, and are you prepared for the consequences ? Take it from me i have removed many more things that turned out bad, than turned out the way i had hoped.This is the reason some on this forum will not give you the "Tools" and tell you how to dabble in the "Ownership \Removal" thing... Been there done that! Not pretty ...cause not everyone does the "Imaging" thing....Me... i don't care. if anyone wants to remove something ..."don't let me get in the way of their success and happiness". I just "tell em" what they want ...if i know the answer, and make sure to tell them to always take an Image first.... So if you want to remove something ...just let me know....but consider Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Just Plain Fred For This Useful Post:

    jshiii (2012-02-26),kelliann1 (2012-02-28)

  9. #8
    Lounge VIP
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    1,168
    Thanks
    44
    Thanked 134 Times in 115 Posts
    It's not just what the user may do accidentally, but if the user is granted permissions to access a file or folder, then anything running under that user account has access too - think what a badly behaved bit of code or worse a piece of malware could do if it had unfettered access, but that's what you might be giving it, even if you didn't intend.

    Image backup is good (if not essential), but some malware can remain undetected, stealing data that would otherwise be inaccessible, or the damage caused by a runaway app may be subtle enough not to notice until weeks or months down track.

    "Take Ownership" is a valid thing to do on occasions. It is the same in Linux (as root), as it is Windows (as Administrator). But I feel it should be done with eyes open and an understanding of the potential consequences.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Tinto Tech For This Useful Post:

    CLiNT (2012-02-26)

  11. #9
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Polk County, Florida
    Posts
    3,760
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 424 Times in 338 Posts
    As an aside, I run a highly modified installation of Windows 7. The way my system is setup, all Junction Points are traversable. If I click on "Documents and Settings" it will open the Users folder, but the title bar will display as "Documents and Settings". It works the same with all the other Junction Points, as well.

    Documents and Settings.PNG

    The behavior I get out of Windows 7 is not unlike XP - I can do pretty much whatever I want. On the other hand, I could really screw things up big time if I got careless. For just that reason, I don't recommend my setup for any but the most experienced users, but it works the way I want it to, not stuck in Microsoft's box.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

  12. #10
    New Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Santa Barbara CA
    Posts
    15
    Thanks
    25
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I found a 'workaround' on Microsoft answers when I had a similar problem with File/Folder Ownership/Permissions. http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...=1330306676841

    It really didn't answer my question as to what the default setting should be for Windows 7 but temporarily solved my problem while I research it some more.
    James, Santa Barbara CA

    Windows XP Professional sp3
    Pentium 4, 3.40GHz, Step 10, 64-bit, 4.00 GB (2.87), WDC , 1TB, 7200rpm, SATA, 3.0GB/s, NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS, 512MB (EVGA),
    MS Security Essentials 2.0, WAU on, Secunia PSI, Google Chrome, IE8, MS Silverlight, Windows Live Essentials, MS Office Ultimate 2007, MS Office Visio Pro 2007, MS Office Live Add-In, Zune, iTunes, Foxit Reader, Adobe Flash Player, Java, CCleaner, Registry Crawler

  13. #11
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    330
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Plain Fred View Post
    kelliann1,
    Hello... The fact is that you can remove, open, or delete anything that you want, on any OS...(if you know how) The question is do you want to, and are you prepared for the consequences ? Take it from me i have removed many more things that turned out bad, than turned out the way i had hoped.This is the reason some on this forum will not give you the "Tools" and tell you how to dabble in the "Ownership \Removal" thing... Been there done that! Not pretty ...cause not everyone does the "Imaging" thing....Me... i don't care. if anyone wants to remove something ..."don't let me get in the way of their success and happiness". I just "tell em" what they want ...if i know the answer, and make sure to tell them to always take an Image first.... So if you want to remove something ...just let me know....but consider Regards Fred
    Fred - Sorry for the late reply. I am too much of a scaredy cat to mess with anything I am not supposed to mess with but with XP I could at least *look* if I wanted to! I understand the danger of malware doing evil if I as User "own" everything and the danger of Windows 7 beginners and novices (like me) monkeying around with stuff and maybe wrecking the system. BUT: I want to be able to look at whatever I want to look at.

    I do have a question about the file structure of Windows 7, but guess I will ask in another thread because this one's about access.

    I found out how to do the "elevated command prompt" and become the "Big Cheese Administrator Of The Entire Win 7 Universe On My Computer" (different from merely being a User Administrator) and it seems to me that at that time I could look at any darned thing I pleased. I might have found it on HowToGeek or maybe on Lindburgh's http://lindburghs-reference-library.wikispaces.com If I remember right, it is easy to become the Big Cheese Administrator on all Windows 7 versions EXCEPT Windows 7 Basic and Windows 7 Home Premium (I have Home Premium on this machine I am using and Professional on the other one).

    Kelliann

  14. #12
    Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    4,752
    Thanks
    171
    Thanked 650 Times in 573 Posts
    I think "Big Cheese" would have been a much better title for Microsoft to have chosen for THE Adminstrator instead of "Built-In"!

  15. #13
    Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    New Plymouth, New Zealand
    Posts
    30
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Aye, but how come those pesky little arrows show up on folders — including My Documents, for goodness sake — on two of my Win7 Home Premium installations but not on two others? On one of those machines, the one I call my work m/c, I can double-boot with XP. I never use Win7 on that (unconnected) computer even though it's the one I use, for several hours each day, for writing books. If it weren't for the other three computers' connections to the Internet and LAN I should get rid of Win7 and reinstall XP on each.

  16. #14
    Gold Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Johnson City, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    3,202
    Thanks
    37
    Thanked 215 Times in 202 Posts
    Kelliann,
    Hello... There is a much easier way , if all you want to do is look. (allows you to do more if wanted) A small free program called WinBubble I use this all the time on Vista and "7" It has never failed letting me open and look at anything ( even with the little lock thing ) WinBubble adds a Right click context menu choice..."Take ownership" ..You simply select the recalcitrant folder \ file and select (Right click) "Take Ownership" ....You'll then see a command prompt screen open and auto scroll through the folder\file ....Done ... you now can open it, and have a look see. . Never has caused any problems for me, using it for several years.... Regards Fred

    PS: I use 1.76...Still available... can't say about any others
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Just Plain Fred; 2012-02-29 at 08:45.
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Just Plain Fred For This Useful Post:

    Dic (2012-02-29),kelliann1 (2012-02-29)

  18. #15
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    330
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
    Bruce R -
    <g> Me too.

    Kelliann

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •