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    A painful experience Jerry, and one reason why I'm not customising my Win8 CP: I absolutely must be able to see it exactly how potential end users will see it.

    There were two points in the video that I would take issue with however:

    1st, at around 2:26 where Chris Prillo's dad says something like "but this is not the final version?" and Chris replies "yeah, but this is what Microsoft thinks is the final version" - that's clearly not the case. This is still a Beta product and is nowhere near the RTM and Chris is furthering his own agenda by suggesting that Microsoft thinks it is the final version. I have said it in a different thread: personally, I think Microsoft shot themselves in the foot by releasing the DP to general release and created an expectation that now they wish to dampen down.

    2nd, in the last few seconds: his dad, says "who puts this out?", Chris replies: "Microsoft", dad: "They trying to push me to Mac?" - Fair comment, but have you seen a start button recently on a Mac (or a Linux box for that matter)?

    Windows 8 without a Start Button is disturbing for normal users and as above I need to see it how these normal users will see it, not as a power user will see it. However, I wonder if MS might potentially run an "interactive how-to" guide on boot up that tells people how to navigate around. How many times have we been faced by less experienced users asking "Where's the manual?" or "Why don't they give you a book that tells you how to use the thing?" Perhaps now is an opportunity?

    Navigating Win8CP is easy when you know how, but at present, it is extremely non-intuitive to the normal every-day user.

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    1. Agree, much of the general public, maybe, it seems took an unfortunate, somewhat warped perception of Windows8 from the DP.

    2. Fully support your points, about the 2 items from the video. 1 is just plain wrong, the other makes no sense & carries no weight since, as mentioned, there isn't any start button or start menu there (Macs), either. Actually, Windows8 DOES! ...bottom-left corner.

    3. I have written a lot in this regard w/ more depth & detail, in this & other tech forums so, to be brief...

    Windows8 is easy, enjoyable & technically very impressive!

    4. Not only to I agree about basic instructions for Windows8 ( I put the Keyboard shortcuts & Nav Tips in this forum, somewhere ), indeed, as a MS Beta-tester, I have written to the Win8 Build team recommending/requesting this be done. That MS not only add a pop-up of same but, put a printed Guide Sheet in the box w/ the OS install discs. Agree, much is not obvious, @ 1st.

    http://windowssecrets.com/forums/sho...440#post845440

    Cheers,
    Drew
    Last edited by Drew1903; 2012-03-13 at 17:26.

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    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Tinto, thanks for the comment. I'm not a huge Prillo fan but I think he's right when he says: "this is what Microsoft thinks is the final version". I don't expect any major substantive changes in the final version outside of the Metro apps themselves. I had enough problems with users moving to Vista/Windows 7. This is a much more traumatic change with users having to deal with two OS's at the same time Metro and Desktop.

    Also, the issue isn't that the start button doesn't exist on a Mac, its that that was the basic starting point for all Windows operations for several generations and now its gone with no intuitive replacement. I expect Windows will ship with a good tutorial in the help but in my experience, few users read it.

    Like the Ribbon, I've learned to work with the new system but don't find it an improvement. I find the hot spots in the four corners touchy when I want to use them and they tend to pop up annoyingly when I don't. I will buy a copy when it comes out because I will need to be familiar with it to support new PCs, but the only advantage I see with it is it appears to be faster. I will probably install it on my laptop where the speed advantage is greatest. My desktop is plenty fast enough with Windows 7.

    Jerry

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    Need For Interactive How-To

    Tinto Tech:
    However, I wonder if MS might potentially run an "interactive how-to" guide on boot up that tells people how to navigate around.
    If the above were true in this beta, there would not have been a video of Chris' dad! Such an "interactive how-to" should be available upon every boot-up until the user opts out. That would surely prevent a lot of angst.

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    I have just sent this specific suggestion to the Windows8 Build Team. It follows my suggestion/request to them, yesterday, for an instruction sheet to be included in the Win8 OS disc box (@ retail).

    Drew

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    You have to remember that a vast majority of Windows user get a new version of Windows pre-installed with a new PC. These days in the US you do not get physical media anymore. There is a recovery partition on almost all OEM PCs. If Microsoft was to do something it would have to be electronically to be used at all.

    I also pay no attention to Chris Pirillo anymore. A decade ago he seemed to be an objective observer who just wanted to help people. Since then he seems to have evolved to not like anything Microsoft does with any software.

    Joe

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    Agreed Joe.

    Furthermore, OEM's typically load plenty of customisations onto their machines during the end-user installation. I can't see the Likes of Acer, HP, Lenovo, Toshiba or Dell leaving a blank desktop screen without any shortcuts to apps or "ease of use functions". Likewise, if Microsoft are unable to produce an in-situ "how-to" guide, then it is fully in the interests of the OEM's to do so. Their lifeblood is in selling machines and if people won't buy the machine because it is difficult to use, the OEM might as well pack up shop.

    Lastly, on the Chris Prillio video, although I confess I didn't watch all the iPad comparison, I suspect there was no mention of how to close an app on the iPad. That's simple when you know how, but not entirely intuitive either. If the user heads down the wrong path, they can end up deleting the app from the device (what's the difference between a red "-" and a black "X" unless you have read about it previously?).

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    Ok, we know I agree though, I will clarify... this needs to be in place not, cus the OS is difficult but, because it's going to be mystery. It's actually easy to use... once you know the mechanics. And that part is not obvious.

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    If the public has a bad impression of Win 8, its the psuedo press that's fostering it. Everyone's an expert...
    Chuck

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    Hello, fellow Canuck. You wrote : Windows8 is easy, enjoyable & technically very impressive!

    Right. I loaded it as a test bed, on a slow P4, Asus, 2 Gs RAM. It runs and is, my impression, quicker than W-7 on my main machine, an Acer Intel Duo-core, 4 Gs RAM. As soon as I get a replacement for the C:\ that died on that Acer, I will try W-8 on it, it should fly.

    I find a Start button by doing an Enter as soon as the screen comes up, of sort. I can then navigate to my old style Desktop and do what I need. I operate this way as I do not have, yet, a touch screen and even am on a 4:3 LCD. One has to addapt to what one has. ;-)

    So far, I think W-8 is good, about not being intuitive, you should have seen me trying to help my +1/2 to a given Mac Air, talk about not being intuitive !

    Out to the W-8 machine now to learn more. JP.

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    IMO, after many years [50+] on many systems - mainframes and PC's, I think Windows 8's design is the worst I've ever experienced. I will now reinstall W7 and continue with a more user friendly scheme of operating. W8's design interface team seemed to be more interested in 'cuteness' than functionality.

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    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    There is a good guide to using Windows 8 built into CP but Microsoft should make it more obvious. Go to the start screen and type help. Click on the Help or Help and support icon.

    Jerry

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    Yes, certainly, Jerry. The only wee problem is less than savvy End Users & new computer buyers... it, for some reason, doesn't seem to occur to them to > HELP

    Drew

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    Perhaps it is that we've all been "taught" that in the PC world "Help" is usually useless and synonymous with "you're on your own".

    Joe

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