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  1. #16
    4 Star Lounger
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    Envious

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbybluz View Post
    Windows 8 test rig: Asus M4A89TD, AMD 965BE @3.9ghz (water cooled), 16gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3 1600, 2 1tb Samsung F3 HD103SJ's in RAID 0, Sapphire HD 4890 2tb, Creative Audigy 2 Pro (modded .ini files), Corsair HX 750, Win 8-64 Developer Preview in dual boot with XP Pro 64.
    Quite a "test rig" bobbybluz! Thanks for sharing.

  2. #17
    New Lounger
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    Back up yes, always! But why even bother to set up a dual boot with Windows 8 or any other variation that might cause a problem on your main system? Hard drives are so inexpensive now, and you can pick up used hard drives at PC Recycling stores for virtually nil. I just acquired a four year old 250 GB SATA drive for free after the previous owner decided to upgrade their desktop to a larger hard drive. (Yes, I did the drive transfer of all partitions to the new hard drive! That's how I got it for free.) Needless to say, this is only a Beta version of Windows 8, so why worry about doing the install on a used hard drive? This is 'just a test' anyway!
    Just an opinion - Metro on a WORKSTATION is crappy as I never keep any icons on my desktop in XP Pro anyway - they are all in folders on the START MENU. The 'Windows Explorer' ribbon is inefficient. The missing start button is a VERY dumb idea, and whoever thought of this ought to be fired.

  3. #18
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Skip, Welcome to the Lounge.

    My dual boot is set up for one reason. I have a laptop and swapping laptop HDs is slightly more involved and more easily damaged during the process. I might consider a different HD, but then I also have a separate partition for my data and I can access the data from either Win 7 or Win 8 CP and it stays in sync without a hiccup. So there is an advantage to the dual boot scenario for those of us using Win 8 CP full time to really test it's versatility for our everyday use. I can update my financial records from within Win8 CP and the updates also is there should I look at it from Win 7. Nice!
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  4. #19
    New Lounger
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    You mentioned that you do a thorough "Cleanup" before you backup. Do you rely on the Win 7 "Disk Cleanup" utility, or do you use a more detailed clean up process?

    Great thread!

    Rick...

  5. #20
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I run CCleaner, Privacy Mantra, a specialized batch file which includes the disk cleanup file on steroids. These cleanup processes are all mentioned in detail in other threads. I believe you might learn more about it by reading the other threads. In essence the batch file looks like this:

    @Echo off
    cls
    cleanmgr /sageset:99
    del /F /S /Q "%systemroot%\temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "%systemroot%\Prefetch\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\Default User\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\Default User\Local Settings\Temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\Default User\Local Settings\History\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\%Theodore%\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\%Theodore%\Local Settings\Temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\%Theodore%\Local Settings\History\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\%Theodore%\Local Settings\Application Data\Temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Documents and Settings\%Theodore%\Local Settings\Application Data\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5
    \*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\History\*. *"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Low\Content.IE5\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows\Temporary Internet Files\Temporary Internet Files\Low\Content.IE5\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Users\Theodore\AppData\Local\Temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Users\Theodore\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows \Temporary Internet Files\Low\Content.IE5\*.*
    del /F /S /Q "C:\Users\Theodore\AppData\Local\Microsoft\Windows \History\*.*

    ::Rem: No need to duplicate the following section for each registered User
    del /F /S /Q "%homepath%\Cookies\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "%homepath%\recent\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "%homepath%\Local Settings\cookies\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "%homepath%\Local Settings\History\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "%homepath%\Local Settings\Temp\*.*"
    del /F /S /Q "%homepath%\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\*.*"
    cleanmgr /sagerun:99
    Pause


    Obviously anywhere you see my name you would have to put your username. Also if the batch file is run after CCleaner and Privacy Mantra many of the file paths will already be empty but I'm a firm believer in why take chances. The sageset and sagerun commands only have to be run once to cause the disk cleanup to run on steroids, but it does not hurt to run it each time. Just does not help any further.

    Simply copy and paste the lines into Notepad and Save As to your Desktop as a ,bat file then run it whenever you wish to clean your PC.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  6. #21
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    Ted...

    I'll give your batch file a try. Your point about searching elsewhere in the forum is well taken though. I've turned up a wealth of information already. I guess I'll have to put off working on my taxes for another day. Thanks for providing me with a good excuse.

    Rick...

  7. #22
    Star Lounger
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    I'll echo the sentiments about backing up. I set up all my friends and customers with their own Thermaltake BlacX drive docks. (about 30 bucks at Newegg) Then instead of buying enclosed portable external drives they can buy numerous cheaper internal drives, and they run much cooler in the docks. Most folks don't realize they can have 20 spare drives each with a dedicated purpose and store them in bubble wrap mailers and just pop in a drive for whatever. I have one 1 TB drive in each of our two docks for daily use, storage, and the drive images we make weekly. We only use Acronis in our XP3 Netbook as it has no built in program but will switch it to EaseUS Todo, which is free like the Windows 7 program both of which I consider better than Acronis for plain vanilla imaging and restoring of images regularly. I have never had a Windows 7 restore problem or have to try it more than once. Acronis glitches regularly and I hear even worse with the newer version 2012. I had a scare when I went to restore my netbook last time I restored it from the trial of Win 8 and it took four or five tries before the restore worked. Now for the scary thing to know. Having all the images in the world won't help you if they are done wrong, corrupt, the wrong thing, or you lost the boot disk and can't make another because the drive fried. The only way to know if you have backups is to practice by restoring them once. And you can mess up your computer doing that too but not if you follow the directions below and/or the ones for your imaging program. The best time to practice making images is on a brand new system you are setting up only after you have made your factory restore disks, and after you have updated Windows, removed bloatware, and installed security, and before you spend all the time installing all your programs and data. Then if you fail or mess it up you only have to restore it to factory and try again until you get it right easily.

    What good is an image or back up of any kind if you can't restore it? The time to find out you did it wrong is up front, not after you have lost all of yours and then find your image is corrupt because you have been doing years of incremental or differentials to save time, and the electricity failed or browned out during one, and/or the UPS fried.

    BIG TIP! If you are a home user, do not do incremental backups or differentials!! Make a complete new image each time. See if one of the increments is corrupt the whole image will fail. I won't get technical just do new images each time and delete the old. If you are IT and are doing central network imaged of multiple computers and have tape and or REV drives also backing up and know what you are doing and can do bare metal great! Do it differently. Home users only need a new image each time about weekly to keep it all fairly safe and most reliable to restore.

    For the newbies who have Windows 7 now and want to start doing images, whether to try Windows 8, or to just finally do backups and not have all at risk again, just follow these steps and directions. It will be long but will have all the info you need. The best way is to get a drive dock and 1TB drive or an external drive of at least twice the size of what amount of hard disk you have used, not the total size of your drive just the data, and you are ready. In Windows 7 only: click on start and in "search" type "backup and restore" which will come up with Backup and restore in the results, click on that and you will see the backup and restore page. Then on that page do NOT set up the back ups! Making sure your external drive is set up and powered on, just click on "Create a system image," and it will search for a back up external drive and will find yours in under a minute. It will ask if that is where you want the image and you click on proceed. It will create your folders for you on the external drive and show you the progress as it goes. For the average user without a lot of music or movies on their system the image should take less than 30 minutes to make.

    Now get a blank CD to make the boot disk with. On the main Backup and restore page, right under "Create a system image," you will see "Create a system Repair disk" Click on it and create it. That disk is your boot disk to restore your whole system later. It can be easily checked now, before you need it. Just put it in the optical drive and close the window that pops up asking if you want to open it to view files or whatever. Then restart your computer and see if it boots from the disk or asks if you want to boot from DVD or CD to press any key which you do. It will seem to take forever to load the program and driver and come up with the main screen. Once it does just remove the disk and restart and you can be sure that you can boot into your computer to restore any images you made with the Create a system disk program in Windows 7. The only thing I have found is that if you are using eSATA it writes your backup image very much faster than USB connections. However when you go to restore the Win 7 image you must use USB as it reads the eSATA as a raid drive and everything gets glitchy. Run USB for restores with Win 7 and you will be fine.

    I find lots of folks that talk about being techs who can't run but one backup and imaging program. I made it a point through the years to try them all, free and paid for. Ghost was best for a time and then in 2003 it went downhill and I bought Acronis True image (TI) whatever it was called back then up to TI 10. I still use Acronis TI 10 for my XP3system, all my other systems are Win 7 now and for them I use the Win 7 imaging. However I can't find an imaging program in Win 8, and Acronis TI 10 won't work on anything newer than Vista, so once I have Win 8 loaded and all mu programs loaded on it and all updates I image that with EaseUS Todo free and make its boot disk.

    I always had and now have at least one test bed that is brand new or close, usually a laptop, and a second test bed with XP3 and is older, which now is my Acer 8.6inch netbook. I made an image of the XP3 netbook in about 15 minutes using my old Acronis 10 on it as XP and Vista do not have the robust imaging program that Win 7 has. It could not run Metro due to lower resolution so I just stuck in the Acronis Boot disk with the Netbook hooked up to my external drive and restored the latest image I had just made for it in about 25 minutes. I had my system and all my programs/data back, just as they were, nothing lost.

    My new test bed is a Toshiba laptop with an i3 dual core and 8 GB of DD3 RAM, and and I replaced the 500 GB drive in it with a 128GB Crucial M4 SSD. I did not image the old drive as you can't restore an image easily to a smaller drive than you made it from, and besides, I have that drive stored as it was with all the programs I had loaded but not much else as it was three weeks old when I took Windows 7 off of it (64 bit) and tried 8. I loaded Office 2010 and all my programs and since it has no built in imaging program I downloaded and installed EaseUS Todo free on it. All this was in the tho days following the release of 8 on the 29th. I had been running the developers preview since it came out last year on my old Toshiba laptop that had Vista on it. (ugh!)

    Now when it came around to Windows updates day, the second Tuesday of each month, which fell on the 14th, I updated my two Win 7 desktops, my XP netbook and yes the 8 or so updates for Win 8 on the laptop. That took care of all my systems right? Wrong! I also had a system in an image only of the Win 7 system that was on the laptop before I loaded Win 8 on it. So I imaged the newly updated Win 8 on the laptop with EaseUS because 8 does not have the imaging program that 7 has. Once I had imaged the updated Win 8, I could reinstall the Windows 7 system to update it too, as I don't want to restore it next October when 8 becomes a pay for system, and have six months of updates to do. So I put in the Windows 7 repair/boot disk and restarted the computer with the external drive dock attached and turned on. I selected to restore the image and yes it found the latest one on the external drive that I made just before I installed Win 8. I restored the Win 7 image, did all the Windows updates on it, then made a new Win 7 image, and then inserted the EaseUS boot disk, restarted and restored the EaseUS win 8 image which was already updated.

    It is that easy. I reset my BIOS on all my computers to boot first from USB, second from the optical drive/DVD/CD, and third from the internal C drive if that is the boot drive or partition. Don't worry if you are using a USB thumb-drive to readyboost, just make it dedicated when you first install it and the computer will not try to boot from it each time. It will skip any non bootable CDs or DVDs, but will boot from the bootable ones in Windows XP and 7. To do images setting the BIOS to boot from USB drives first is optional. I do it only because I burn a lot of .iso images to them, as I have one 8 GB for ready boost on each desktop, and four 8 GB Patriot Exporter XT armored thumbdrives for special boots and file transfers.

    Now for you folks that are afraid of doing imaging or think you will bung up the system you are the ones who need to learn it most! For me I don't hesitate to image and restore for whatever reason, and I am not risking my data or systems by doing that. One other thing is that you only need the boot disk for doing the restore of an image nowadays. I saw ion a few posts where they mentioned using the boot disks to make the images and that is just not necessary. In today's environment of XP3 not XP1 all the way through win 8 windows shadowing allows you to work while an image is being created. Now you will get all kinds of technical sounding supposed reasons for never doing an image while Windows is running. That was only true in the early days of imaging. I use Win 7 imaging, Acronis TI 10, and EaseUS version 3.5 and do the creating an image part in Windows to the external drive, and use the boot disks to restore an image. I make a boot disk for each program I use on each desktop as I have one 64 bit and one 32 bit. I use the 64 bit boot disks in my desktop and laptop both 64 bit, and the other 32 bit boot disks in my netbook and other 32 bit desktops. The boot disks are not computer specific, just bit specific or at least I believe so and do it that way with no issues. We do weekly images of each computer for data security, and I have a clone for each computer that can be updated with the image I make weekly so the clone does not have to be updated, just made after I loaded all my programs on a new system and uninstalled all the crap and bloatware. But that would be no problem either because of the external drive dock that takes both 3.5 inch and 2.5 inch SATA drives. I can pop in the clones anytime and remake them when I am through for the day in about 45 minutes to an hour. Why clones? Because then if I have a drive failure I have no delays. I remove the bad drive, pop in the clone in about ten minutes, and then run the boot disk for the OS I am restoring and restore the image from the last week. I do mine on Mondays so if the drive fails on a Tuesday then I will have only lost one day of emails etc. If the drive fails on Sunday I will lose 6 days of emails and data. There is data we do not want to lose like the Quicken home and biz that is backed up after each work session in finances as the back up takes less than a minute to do to a thumbdrive. If there are any legal or admissible in court types of emails I forward them to my wife for archiving for a week. She dumps them every Monday after imaging. We are both retired so we aren't really concerned about much except financial data. I have IMAP email now but am going back to POP3 so my emails are only on one computer, my main one, and they are removed from the server when I download them to it. I leave it on the server from all the others and the longest that would be might be a week or two vacation trip

  8. #23
    Star Lounger
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    BTW, nice elegant batch file Ted. I haven't written one of them since the mid 90's,when the AF made us switch to Windows, which I had to have at home too along with my own copy of Office to work at home when needed. I use command line rarely and when I do I have to look up my commands on another computer for syntax as I forgot most of it. Then I read one and understand it.

  9. #24
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    I defrag my XP system once a month after doing Windows updates, as it is not used except once a year or twice for a trip. On my in use systems we use CCLeaner at least daily and especially after Windows updates or deleting and installing programs and prefetch changes. However you don't need to defrag your Win 7 computer unless you changed the default defrag settings as per this article:

    "Like Windows Vista, Windows 7 allows for scheduled defragmentation jobs. In fact, defragmentation is automatically scheduled by default, which means that most users will never have to adjust any settings in order to optimize disk performance. Well, assuming you don't turn off your computer at night, anyway. By default, the defragmenter is set to run at 1:00AM."
    http://downloadsquad.switched.com/20...defragmenting/

    Now if like most you do turn off your computers every night then just leave it on one night a week or change the time to one just after you usually finish with it for the day and leave it on for that. This schedule and auto defrag is the reason third party defrag programs like Piriform's Defraggler ask on install if you want it to replace Windows Defrag. I think many folks missed that sea change in Windows that aren't techies.
    Last edited by Derek Jr; 2012-03-22 at 12:50.

  10. #25
    Star Lounger lesle's Avatar
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    And I've also been saying just what the railroads say, "Never the trains shall meet".
    ---
    The first line of the first stanza of Rudyard Kipling's well-known The Ballad of East and*West includes:

    "... and never the twain shall meet,"

    Twain, meaning two.
    ---
    I do like the train figure of speech, though; it certainly conveys the thought of potential crashing, be it trains or Operating Systems.

  11. #26
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I cannot take credit for most of the batch file. I will take credit for posting it. Credit for the development must go to DrWho. Many of you do know DrWho from these forums. Tell him thanks next time you see him around.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  12. #27
    New Lounger pohsibkcir's Avatar
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    RE: Too many newbies trying this and destroying their PCs

    While I will agree with the gist of the of the general warning that permiates all the thread remarks I've read so far about 'Backup-Backup-Backup' ... I don't agree that it's limited to just newbies. While many computer users may be 'tech savvy', most are not 'tech enthusiats'. For clarification, tech-savvy refers to a person who uses a computer everyday and knows how to do most of the maintenance and general things one must do to keep their computer running efficiently. A tech-enthusiast, on the other hand, subscribes to sources such as Windows Secrets, or in my case, following Fred Langa around since 1999. I am a tech-enthusiast, and I am also an IT Professional (retired). Most tech-savvy people aren't interested in the latest version of Windows. They just want something that works, whereas ... The tech-enthusiast craves to be in on the ground floor. And therein is where the trouble really manifests itself. Because while most tech-enthusiasts are tech aware, many aren't. It is not a requirement of being an enthusiast of any field, topic, or thing, that the enthusiast be proficient at what they are enthused about. If it was a requirement, then most sporting venues would be empty.

    Windows 8 is a peculiar beast. And from my point of view, it has no usefulness as a Desktop PC OS, save for some of the improvements which should really be a service pack for Windows 7. The best of Windows 8 works with touch screen appliances and serves more as a baby sitter than as an OS.

    As for those who try the beta version of Windows 8 and mess up their computers in the process ... I will conjecture that 90% or more, knew better and that they should backup-backup-backup ... Yet, felt confident enough in their own computing skills to make the attempt without a net. Which, we all do at one point or another, and flop. Much like life lessons, some experience happens at a personal cost. We will still coach our friends to backup to redundant levels. Some will listen, others will say thet have and most will risk it anyways. A tech-enthusiast has to, it is an itch to be scratched, an urge to be met, and it does meet with an infection, or failure at times. It is how we best learn as a species. We try to prevent it, we preach from personal experience, and no matter what we do ... S%#t happens.

    I'll leave you all with these final thoughts ... Does there have to be an app for absolutely everything? I do not want my car radio, my alarm clock, or my home stereo to have an iConnector to any iPod, iPhone, or any iApp, thank you very much. A memory card, USB, and/or 3/8-stereo aux input jack are fine enough and more universally compatable.

  13. #28
    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    Disc Clean-up:

    Familiar is > C:\ > Properties > General tab, there's a Disc Clean-up button OR drill down to System Tools & it's there, too. However, then, select drive(s)* one wants done, hit OKs, wait for 2 windows, go thru list putting in checkmarks, etc, etc.

    Some may know > cmd, Run as Admin & type cleanmgr tuneup:n to do Disc Clean-up. This, I suggest, is much better... more items listed, after 1st time no need to recheck boxes and *does ALL drives...

    > cmd, Run as Admin
    type or paste in %SystemRoot%\System32\Cmd.exe /c Cleanmgr
    /sageset:65535 & Cleanmgr /sagerun:65535
    , hit Enter
    Hit OK on the window that appears, after checking all boxes the 1st time this is run...they stay checked when it is run subsequent times

  14. #29
    New Lounger
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    Why not just use a spare SATA hard drive? They are very easy to swap. 6 screw on the cover 2 on the HD, swap drives and you are done.

  15. #30
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    Thank you for the helpful thread. I know a person who was planning to do just that (no, it's not me ), so now I have the info to help discourage her.

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