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  1. #1
    Lounger
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    Microsoft Security Essentials

    Well, as recommended by the newsletter, I tried MSE out. I originally had AVG free 64 bit on the laptop and it wasnt giving me any trouble but I had noticed, of late, that AVG wasnt finding new viruses within a 2 week period even though I had gone to the trouble of sending in samples. They repeatedly told me it wasnt an infection then after 2 weeks with the virus sitting in a dir on my laptop and me scanning it after every update, it finally deleted it. So, to say I was disappointed with AVG was an understatement!

    Anyway, I tried out MSE on the laptop as a result and today have removed it, some 2 months later simply because it and Bonjour service would conspire to grind my laptop to a dead stop that required holding the power button in to get going again. Eg, dead power off and start again. Not fun! I am using Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit. I dont like Apple products on my computer. They seem to be sloppy CPU hogs when working but I had decided to turn a blind eye towards Bonjour and see how it went and it was going OK under AVG. Sure the system was slowed down somewhat but I was still deciding if it was something other than Bonjour when I changed to MSE from AVG.

    The worst part about this whole disappointing MSE affair is that it, too, didnt really pick up new viruses for weeks at a time. When I finally sent in samples, the only thing over AVG that it had was that they would listen to and add the viruses to their definitions and get rid of that virus within 24 hours of being reported. In the meantime, out of almost 50 different virus programs, it was surprising to find one I had never tried was the ONLY one to find one new virus I had stored on my computer while at other times it didnt and even, once only, lowly and useless Symantec actually was one of the first to be able to find it. AVG and MSE never figured at all within 2 weeks unless I reported the virus and then only MSE did anything about it.

    How do I find these new viruses you are asking about now, right? I am one of the "front line" or "in the trenches" workers that most I.T. people think of as the I.T. world "sh** kickers". I go to businesses and homes and put out spot fires amongst other work, those fires being simple hardware faults or viruses. Sure I set up servers and so on but you get money in the door whatever way it comes and that is one of the ways. So, I am always facing brand new viruses I didnt know existed, identifying them, copying them to my computer for later and sending them off to anti virus companies. I am only one out of probably millions of people worldwide who do the same sort of thing.

    My verdict about MSE - if you want to use it, be aware it isnt all that good at keeping up with the latest and newest viruses, doesnt detect them when used to directly scan a new virus no matter how you set the program (not that there is really much you can set on it) and it doesnt get on with Bonjour, conspiring with it to grind your computer down to a non-responsive brick! AVG, at least, never did grind my computer down like that, even when actively scanning. MSE does it in concert with Bonjour when just supposedly sitting there doing nothing while the laptop isnt in use. So do yourself a favour and get rid of Bonjour if you MUST use MSE or do yourself an even better favour and get rid of both of them and install another antivirus of your choice. Otherwise, be ready to pull the power plug in order to restart your computer!

    Greg.

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  3. #2
    Gold Lounger
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    Greg,
    Hello...I have no experience with MSE.. I do with Norton Internet Security 2012 and Malwarebytes Pro...I have use these both as a primary security paradigm for years with no MS stuff at all (patches or Updates )..Norton is completely customizable, almost to a fault... On XP, Vista and "7" (mix of 32 and 64 ) so far no "Problemo" ... In my world you get what you pay for ..... Regards Fred
    PlainFred

    None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free (J. W. Von Goethe)

  4. #3
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    No single AV product, regardless of name or manufacturer, will provide full protection against all threats. Relying on a single product is thus more risky.
    Personally, I used MSE for some time and replaced it recently but a more light (paid) anti-virus and anti-malware product. Alongside that product, I run another paid product that works as an "OS firewall", controlling any apps or components that run on my computers. These products combined offer more protection and are light enough not to cause any visible performance degradation, contrary to what happened with MSE.

  5. #4
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    So Rui, what AV did you switch to if you do not mind my asking.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
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  6. #5
    Star Lounger catilley1092's Avatar
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    MSE is OK for some things. Such as students who uses their computer for homework/research, w/o revealing any personal information. Also runs decently in VM's (I'm currently running MSE 4 Beta). But I have went onto sites that I know for a fact that my main protection would have flagged or blocked, just to see what would happen.

    It's also high for false positives. It prevents the Unlocker app from opening (something to do with OpenCandy ad software).

    I suppose, if one cannot afford better, run MSE & make sure to schedule a Full scan daily. Make sure the box is checked to update prior to running a scan. And if possible, buy a copy of MBAM Pro from Newegg. It's lifetime protection & will pick up the slack that MSE has. And once a month, run the free ESET Online Scanner. That will give you an idea of how MSE is really protecting you. Don't be surprised at what MSE lets go by.

    Finally, contrary to popular belief, MSE is heavier on system resources than MS claims it to be. There are other options, but this is a MSE related thread, & I won't break the rules & hijack it.

    Cat
    My System Specs:

    http://speccy.piriform.com/results/N...gWw3zT1A30RkV3 MSI Notebook (OEM Win 7 Pro x64)

    http://speccy.piriform.com/results/8...3hQlSkXzuDfbKb Dell XPS 8700 w/Windows 8

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by catilley1092 View Post
    It's also high for false positives. It prevents the Unlocker app from opening (something to do with OpenCandy ad software).
    That wasn't a false positive: The Story Behind the OpenCandy and Microsoft Adware Debacle


    Quote Originally Posted by catilley1092 View Post
    Finally, contrary to popular belief, MSE is heavier on system resources than MS claims it to be.
    How heavy on system resources does MS claim MSE to be?


    Bruce

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    So Rui, what AV did you switch to if you do not mind my asking.
    I went with Emsisoft's Anti-Malware, Ted. In the end, even not liking what they did regarding OA++, I think their two products combined offer the best protection overall. EAM is a bit different than the ++ component. It features active file and behavior protection (also surf protection but I disable that) which is not exactly what OA++ offered.

  9. #8
    Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Plain Fred View Post
    Greg,
    Hello...I have no experience with MSE.. I do with Norton Internet Security 2012 and Malwarebytes Pro...I have use these both as a primary security paradigm for years with no MS stuff at all (patches or Updates )..Norton is completely customizable, almost to a fault... On XP, Vista and "7" (mix of 32 and 64 ) so far no "Problemo" ... In my world you get what you pay for ..... Regards Fred
    Fred,

    Thanks for the reply but you couldnt PAY me to put Nortons on my computer. At a rate constantly over 81% it doesnt find viruses in my testing, even some it was supposed to know. I realise they have cut some of the sloppy coding out but it still didnt help them in readily identifying viruses. In fact even AVG constantly finds them prior to Nortons.

    Note that like Mac lovers, I realise there are Nortons lovers and I really appreciate them where I am. Without them I wouldnt have anywhere near the income I have delousing computers so really I have nothing actually AGAINST Symantec really.

  10. #9
    mart44
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregwh View Post
    Note that like Mac lovers, I realise there are Nortons lovers and I really appreciate them where I am. Without them I wouldnt have anywhere near the income I have delousing computers so really I have nothing actually AGAINST Symantec really.
    Of course you will get lots of work from people using Norton. It comes installed on new computers and many people are likely to keep it rather than change to another solution. Either that or they will want to get rid of Norton in order to use another program and something goes wrong with the operation. Whatever the reason, the result is computers brought to you are more likely to have Norton on them than anything else.

    I realise that Norton would be the actual reason why the computers are in need of attention. However, I believe it possible you might be condemning AVG if that was what came bundled with new computers and was therefore as abundantly found as Norton is at present. I think it could be all a question of percentages. More people using Norton could easily be the reason why you get more work from those who use it.

    Any AV program can give problems and miss malware. From my own reading around the Internet, Norton does OK at protection. It's not my only layer of security but one worth keeping in my opinion.
    Last edited by mart44; 2012-04-19 at 03:06.

  11. #10
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Some AV companies never seem to catch up and correct false positives; almost 4 years after it was first scanned, here's one such clean file. Do they use scareware tactics to make their products look more efficient than competitors?

  12. #11
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregwh View Post
    Well, as recommended by the newsletter, I tried MSE out. I originally had AVG free 64 bit on the laptop and it wasnt giving me any trouble but I had noticed, of late, that AVG wasnt finding new viruses within a 2 week period even though I had gone to the trouble of sending in samples. They repeatedly told me it wasnt an infection then after 2 weeks with the virus sitting in a dir on my laptop and me scanning it after every update, it finally deleted it. So, to say I was disappointed with AVG was an understatement!

    Anyway, I tried out MSE on the laptop as a result and today have removed it, some 2 months later simply because it and Bonjour service would conspire to grind my laptop to a dead stop that required holding the power button in to get going again. Eg, dead power off and start again. Not fun! I am using Win 7 Ultimate 64 bit. I dont like Apple products on my computer. They seem to be sloppy CPU hogs when working but I had decided to turn a blind eye towards Bonjour and see how it went and it was going OK under AVG. Sure the system was slowed down somewhat but I was still deciding if it was something other than Bonjour when I changed to MSE from AVG.

    The worst part about this whole disappointing MSE affair is that it, too, didnt really pick up new viruses for weeks at a time. When I finally sent in samples, the only thing over AVG that it had was that they would listen to and add the viruses to their definitions and get rid of that virus within 24 hours of being reported. In the meantime, out of almost 50 different virus programs, it was surprising to find one I had never tried was the ONLY one to find one new virus I had stored on my computer while at other times it didnt and even, once only, lowly and useless Symantec actually was one of the first to be able to find it. AVG and MSE never figured at all within 2 weeks unless I reported the virus and then only MSE did anything about it.

    How do I find these new viruses you are asking about now, right? I am one of the "front line" or "in the trenches" workers that most I.T. people think of as the I.T. world "sh** kickers". I go to businesses and homes and put out spot fires amongst other work, those fires being simple hardware faults or viruses. Sure I set up servers and so on but you get money in the door whatever way it comes and that is one of the ways. So, I am always facing brand new viruses I didnt know existed, identifying them, copying them to my computer for later and sending them off to anti virus companies. I am only one out of probably millions of people worldwide who do the same sort of thing.

    My verdict about MSE - if you want to use it, be aware it isnt all that good at keeping up with the latest and newest viruses, doesnt detect them when used to directly scan a new virus no matter how you set the program (not that there is really much you can set on it) and it doesnt get on with Bonjour, conspiring with it to grind your computer down to a non-responsive brick! AVG, at least, never did grind my computer down like that, even when actively scanning. MSE does it in concert with Bonjour when just supposedly sitting there doing nothing while the laptop isnt in use. So do yourself a favour and get rid of Bonjour if you MUST use MSE or do yourself an even better favour and get rid of both of them and install another antivirus of your choice. Otherwise, be ready to pull the power plug in order to restart your computer!

    Greg.
    Greg,
    The news letter recommends MSE for the average user, obviously that is not you.
    Interesting post.
    Do you "Believe"? Do you vote? Please Read:
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  13. #12
    Star Lounger catilley1092's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceR View Post
    That wasn't a false positive: The Story Behind the OpenCandy and Microsoft Adware Debacle



    How heavy on system resources does MS claim MSE to be?


    Bruce
    There's more to that article than you pointed out. One vendor out of thousands forgot to include a EULA.

    http://www.opencandy.com/privacy-mat...twork-details/

    At the time of release, MS stated that MSE was very low on system resources, yet, it's not, especially while updating & scanning. Those who are running the most up to date version (4), which can be only obtained using a Windows Live ID, are running the one which uses less resources & is a more potent AV.

    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/mic...als,14158.html

    This version has a much faster scanning engine than the original MSE & 2.0 does, & actually catches more bad code that comes it's way. I originally obtained that version from a Microsoft Connect invitation, of which sends me other new Windows software to try from time to time. Been using it since November on all of my virtual XP installs, including XP Mode, it's very promising over the current version.

    But even that still won't cause me to dump ESET Smart Security 5 for it. It's just that I cannot, by the terms of my license, run ESET on a physical & virtual install at the same time.

    Cat
    My System Specs:

    http://speccy.piriform.com/results/N...gWw3zT1A30RkV3 MSI Notebook (OEM Win 7 Pro x64)

    http://speccy.piriform.com/results/8...3hQlSkXzuDfbKb Dell XPS 8700 w/Windows 8

  14. #13
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I do and have used MSE for a couple of years on several PC's very effectively. As I have stated, and many others have stated, a good AV is only a part of a multi layered approach to a good security scheme on any PC. This multi layered approach has been discussed in detail elsewhere so I will not rehash it here. The weakest leak in this scheme is the user. It has always been the weakest link for the average user, it always will be the weakest link. There is no security scheme made that can thwart the user's blind attempts to go where ever they want and do what ever they want no matter the consequences.

    Over the years I have tried and subsequently had problems with most of the AV apps mentioned above. Perhaps they have changed over those same years and I would be happy with them now, but until I have a documented problem on my systems with my present scheme, I will not be looking to change. I feel safe and comfortable using MSE as a part of that security scheme.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  15. #14
    Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussB View Post
    Greg,
    The news letter recommends MSE for the average user, obviously that is not you.
    Interesting post.
    However, really GOOD and KNOWLEDGEABLE I.T. person, I.T. adept, general person or "afraid to touch the keyboard" user, it doesnt matter. You need to have at least AV protection. Of course, running Mbam is also a good idea and a few other things that people might not want to run, just to be sure. However, it doesnt matter your level of expertise, if the product that is looking for viruses doesnt find it within 2 weeks of *ME* finding it, then what the heck are they doing? Sitting on their backsides sucking lollipops? The product not only has to WORK but the additions to the detectable tables should be a hell of a lot better. After all, it isnt as if my 100% of the time job was on virus protection and yet I am still well in front of them. So, free or paid for, what use is an antivirus that isnt at least as good as me?

    If they really want to keep their AV products going and make me look like I am presenting them with last month's infections, they need to employ someone, no kidding, who just goes and tours porn sites, torrents and the like because if you want a good new virus, you will find one there - or it will find YOU more likely. How do I know? That is most of the reason for almost all the new viruses I find. Workplace porn addicts and home teenagers downloading their movies and music for free on torrents. It may be that the company owning the legal rights to that music or that movie/TV show actually DIDNT purposely release it with a virus embedded but on torrents, how do you even KNOW if the computer sending you a partial isnt badly infected? You cant tell some people that what they are doing is the reason for it, either. They just want their porn and illegal downloads and to hell with you for trying to educate them! Doesnt matter. I come back to do it all over again eventually as they infect their computer with the very latest of up to the minute malware! I call them "good customers".

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