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  1. #1
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Debatable whether XP still has more market share than Windows 7


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    Interesting Jerry.

    Over the past few months, I have been supporting many more Win7 machines both in commercial and residential environments.

    From my own limited data, lifted from my own Statcounter reports, I observe an interesting skew. I chose three sites for which I have reasonable data sets. Two sites are used primarily by home users, the third is a small business. All are used almost exclusively within the UK. One site is targeted towards an enthusiasts market, but not computers or an IT related subject matter. Another is a Primary School (ages 5-11) whose visitors are most often parents or families. The third is a banner site for a hydraulic engineering company almost exclusively used in business to business lookups.

    Site1 (Enthusiast): Win7 48.8%, Vista 19.8%, XP 15.6%, Mobile Devices 11.2%, OSX 2.2%, Linux 1.4%, Others 1%

    Site 2 (School): XP 34.8%, Win7 32.2%, Mobile Devices 17.8%, Vista 11.5%, OSX 5.2%

    Site 3 (Small Business) Win7 44.2%, XP 38.6%, Vista 9.6%, Mobile devices 5.0%, Win 2K, 1.8%

    The enthusiast site is more likely to be used by early adopters, hence the high Win7 and Vista. The economy may have restricted peoples' ability to upgrade from Vista to Win 7 in that market over the last few years. Interesting that Linux is measurable on that site.

    The school site is frequented by families, who may be looking to spread their finances to more important things and so have perhaps stayed on XP. So that looks similar to the ZDNet article, though mobile devices are significantly higher than on the enthusiast site. Perhaps this is due to the children looking at their school site and class pages on their smartphones?.......yes even 10 and 11 year olds have smartphones nowadays.

    The Small Business has a complete lack of OSX and Linux. Vista is very similar to the ZDNet data. There is a very small, but measurable presence of Win2k. Interestingly, Win 7 and XP are reversed from the ZDnet article though. This may be due to the fact that the business is a small operation, frequented by other small businesses. Larger outfits may still be slower to upgrade to from XP to Win7.
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    Hi Jerry,
    My own 2¢ .... First i think that "Home Users" far outweigh everyone else... so as to my conclusion...

    1. I have and use XP Pro, Vista, and "7" ( One PC) and as far as everyday stuff, there is no discernible difference between the lot, other than "Eye Candy"

    2. Each performs the "day to day" without complaint.. So in direct comparison there would be little reason to switch from one to the other..

    3. (everyone now screaming) But what about "Security" ... I have my own mix ( Malwarebytes Pro and Norton Internet Security 2012) and never "patch" or "update" ( MS wise) once the OS is running, and all programs are stable. So far have had no problems....

    4. The bottom line is .... if your OS is working and does everything you want .... whats the point of switching systems ? Regards Fred
    PlainFred

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    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    I think businesses encumpasses the greater share of computers running XP out there.

    We have where I work at least 50 computers with XP, XP, and nothing but XP on them.
    I think that the above situation is just a microcosm for the vast majority of business because I see this wherever I go.
    I suspect that windows 2000 is no slouch either in this situation.

    Most of the businesses that are running XP are running just fine with them and have their own IT support crew
    to ensure that they stay that way. The vast majority of these businesses will be large scale government and or private sector operations.

    It's the home user catagory that is very quickly evaporating.
    Most home users who buy computer, will buy those OEM types that do not supply a genuine os disk, which
    means the XP installation you bought a few years ago is now useless when it comes time to purchase a new computer.
    XP will increasingly become alien to the latest hardware and it will become more and more problematic to maintain.

    Hard core gamers and enthusiast will definitely not be using an XP machine for their pursuits, way too anemic, too weak. Security is seldom
    a defining factor for this demographic, performance and modern hardware will be.

    Tinto Tech's numbers are closer to the truth imnsho.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2012-05-06 at 02:40.

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    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    I work with a lot of seniors and about 80% of them are still on XP. Many of them are using computers 6 years old or more. They are still fast enough for them to read thier Emails, browse the web, and play solitaire so they don't have much incentive to upgrade. I also do work for a lawyer's office that has all XP machines except for one recentl upgraded to Windows 7. They have an expensive accounting and billing package that doesn't work on Windows 7, so they are very hesitant to upgrade the secretary's PC. I tried to explain XP mode, but they are still reluctant.

    Jerry

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    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    There are many very sound reasons, on many levels, for (finally) migrating from XP to Windows7; regardless of age, type of usage or environment.

    2nd, as of (or by) mid-Sept. 2011 Windows7 use had surpassed XP.

    I always give my customers the disc w/ an OEM build.

    Fred, I strongly recommend throwing that Norton thing out the window; suggest replacing w/ MSE.

    Cheers,
    Drew

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    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    There are good reasons to migrate from XP to Windows 7. There are also good reasons not to including driver support, cost, insufficient hardware power, and the need to learn a new interface. The choice is up to the individual user.

    The ZDnet article claims XP has more market share. I suspect that you get different results depending on how you measure market share. The main point is that there still is a huge number of XP systems still out there and it won't change until the hardware dies off.

    Jerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew1903 View Post
    2nd, as of (or by) mid-Sept. 2011 Windows7 use had surpassed XP
    That depends on whose figures you believe, and what region of the world or type of market is being discussed.

    It's not the case according to the article linked at the start of this thread:

    "But it may not be until late 2012 — or more likely early 2013 — until there is a crossover of the operating systems."

    Bruce

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I believe Corp use has been keeping the XP numbers elevated. As individuals are replacing their PC's, XP is no longer an option. The option is now Win 7. There will soon be, I would assume, Win 7 and Win 8. As more Corp users replace their systems and S/W with either Win 7 or Win 8 (This might be their choice as more touch screen systems are developed) you will begin to see XP drop off significantly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    I believe Corp use has been keeping the XP numbers elevated. As individuals are replacing their PC's, XP is no longer an option. The option is now Win 7. There will soon be, I would assume, Win 7 and Win 8. As more Corp users replace their systems and S/W with either Win 7 or Win 8 (This might be their choice as more touch screen systems are developed) you will begin to see XP drop off significantly.
    Definitely.

    The corporate large scale migration has been starting to happen over the last year, and is now accelerating: aging XP systems become more problematic to keep running as new hardware replaces old and new security threats need to be watched and patched.

    Surprisingly, when asked "What is the purpose of your company?" many people, even execs, will reply "To make xyz widgets" or "To sell abc services". They are wrong. The purpose of a business is to make money. They do so by making widgets or selling services. When put in that context, the cost of replacing hardware, designing new systems, training staff and the initial reduction in productivity needs to be fully justified.

    In short, there must be a Return On Investment. Although I don't necessarily agree with JPF's approach to {not} patching, his comment that "if it works and does everything one needs why upgrade?" is one that resonates throughout commercial environments.

    There are answers to that question, but the IT manager needs to jump through hoops: often it comes down to it being more costly to stay on XP than to migrate.

    :
    :
    :

    Something that is an interesting contrast is Server OS migration. It is often easier to justify upgrading from Server 2003 (XP) to Server 2008R2 (Win7). Indeed there are many that made the jump to Server 2008 (Vista) almost immediately it was released. This is because these newer Server OS's bring with them significant real-world benefits in both the front-of-house and in the back-office. All for relatively little disruption to the users in a company {thought the guys in the IT back-office might not see it as little disruption). I still see Server 2003, but more likely is Server 2008 or 2008 R2.
    Last edited by Tinto Tech; 2012-05-06 at 16:50. Reason: spelling
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    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    What Ted has said/implied is correct. The adoption to 7 (and 8) is only going to continue & rise, pace is not all that critical. But, it is inevitable. Fact is XP is the past. Yes, it is & was good. But, it's time is fading quickly. Much is no longer made for it or written for it. Things have moved 20 yrs down the road. & w/ the help & guidance & due time, most Home and Corp users are going to 7 or 8 & eventually, all will... the sense of fighting this gets questionable.

    7 (or 8) vs XP (myth busting):

    1. Driver support - Is very deep & wide
    2. ROI is high & justifiable
    3. Win7 (& Win8 even moreso) need no more, if not, less power than XP
    4. Learning curve is not great nor something to see as an obstacle; it's worth it. Life is learning.

    Cheers,
    Drew

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    For most Corp users, there will be little or no learning curve either because many if not most of these users, by the time the Corp world has made the jump, will be using Win 7/Win 8 on their own PC's and will be ahead of the Corp curve already. We still use XP at my company as well although the switch is beginning. As PC's are purchased the new PC's have Win 7 with XP Mode. But you know what all my co-workers that I am aware of already use Win 7 at home, so there is virtually no learning curve. Same applies to the University my wife works at. Corporations are finding their workers are ahead of them in many cases.
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    A corp with thousands of staff can't afford even 5 minutes of people scratching their heads on day one trying to figure how to connect a printer. So, users in a commercial environment who use Win7 at home may be a little disappointed if and when they encounter it in the office.

    In the office, the desktop OS should be locked down tight and may of the flexibilities a home user enjoys are removed. Roaming profiles do away with much of the local storage, libraries and the like. Group policy enforces corporate standards and compliance, so customisation are limited or non-existent. In most cases network shares, printers, vpn access, login requirements needs to be very similar to XP, because that's how the business needs it to be to ensure seamless transition and keep the costs down.

    There are more headaches for the backroom staff ensuring legacy applications run too. XP Mode is present on the desktop, but it just doesn't cut it in some cases. 64bit/32bit apps have to be checked and verified. Database clients need to be certified by the manufacturer. Sometimes applications have to be binned and new ones purchased or developed and integrated. Network configurations need to be addressed, depending on what server technology is employed. All of that needs to be assessed, tested and debuged prior to the migration or very painful and expensive downtime can ensue.

    In the end, the costs of a migration stem many and different sources, but thankfully they are being addressed, and the pace is quickening.

    I'll be glad when the day comes that I can stop thinking in 3 or more different production-released desktop OS's, but it will probably be on the first day of my retirement.
    In God we trust; all others must bring data.

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  14. #14
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    Progress, progress, progress!!! - YUK
    Improvement rather than substitution would be much better.
    If the effort put into windows 7/8 etc. had been put into polishing XP there would have been very few problems.
    I have an XP netbook, a small Vista laptop and a bigger Windows 7 laptop - the latter two only purchased to replace 'motherboard failures' in the original XP machines at a time when XP was no longer available.
    I find that the easiest to use, within its design limitations, is the XP netbook
    The slowest is the Vista laptop - timed yesterday from switch-on to usable - 13 minutes! - and the most frustrating is Windows 7 which keeps failing to retain settings in various programs and in which IE8 is much less stable than IE7.
    I know people want the latest gizmo, but often 'no change' is the best option.

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    Exclamation Hold it, there is tooo much "half-"sense here

    @Poltor:
    Your Netbook and the small Vista notebook seem to be badly under-configured. Without details that's all I will say. You must be a very patient person to be able to live with 13 min. of boot time. But don't blame configuration issues on Windows, that's plain unfair.

    You just can NOT blame Windows when programs don't retain their settings, that's outright silly.

    @Tinto:
    Your "...corp with thousands of staff..." certainly has an internal IT support crew that will come and do these things. Why did the employee not call them? Not a Window's problem at all.

    All the problems you correctly quote (backroom evaluations, 32 vs. 64bit a.s.o.) are all too real but they are problems stemming from size in general and the specific business environment. The average home user hardly ever has to deal with these issues. One out of 25 of my customers has an old piece of software and it is questionable if it will run on Win7.

    And it is a big shame that HP does not give us a Win7 driver for the nice small legacy laser printers that still run and run.

    @ the general notion that Win7 is "more complicated":
    The "normal home user" tends to be computer-uneducated and wants to keep things as they are. For these people I put shortcuts to My Documents, Downloads, My Pictures, (My) Computer a.s.o. on the desktop in the top left corner (My Document's location since Windows 95, remember?). I have had not one complaint or question in over 2.5 years of setting up Windows 7 at a rate of two to five machines every week.

    @Just Plain Fred:
    If you still believe in Norton products and are still willing to pay them then you have never had one of the better TDSS/Alureon infections. There are nasty variants out there that will render your system helplessly infected. Even on XP in my experience MSE is classes better and less workload than ANY version of Norton or McAfee.

    And not updating? IMHO you are dancing on a tightrope without balancing bar and with no net underneath. In a home environment for the "average Joe" home user this is a certain recipe for disaster.

    Only my $0.02 worth. Cheers all.
    Last edited by eikelein; 2012-05-11 at 07:03.
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