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  1. #16
    Lounge VIP bobprimak's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that even for Windows 8 Metro, VLC Player will be developed as an App. This should allow playback of most video formats.

    Tablets do not have optical drives, so Media Center beyond streams, downloads and Libraries would be a complete non-issue for these devices.

    On a laptop, Ultrabook, or Desktop PC, where full x86/x64 programs can be run, VLC Player does the playback for all types of media, with DVD codecs available, while CDBurnerXP (More Options Link for an adware-free installer) will burn almost anything to a CD or DVD. While Windows 8 versions of VLC Player and CDBurnerXP have yet to be announced, I am confident they will be developed. Only the most casual "computer as appliance" users would have difficulty downloading, installing and using these two programs. Organizing music and video Libraries will still be available as native Windows Libraries in Wndows 8, all versions (possibly except the tablet-only RT version).

    What Sinofsky and Company seem to want to do is entice RT users to pay $50.00 per year (for App Store access), plus an additional per-App fee, to get the Media Center features which Pro users can add for a single fee. Either way, there is a cashflow motive. Media downloads and streaming content will cost extra for nearly everyone who wants commercial content.

    Personally, I think a full dual-boot installation of Windows 8 Pro without MS Media Center might be in my future -- someday. I would use it as a desktop OS, with VLC Player and either an updated Toshiba media burning utility, or else something like the Minimal Installation of CDBurnerXP. Even as Windows 7 Legacy Apps, these are good programs and work well in Windows 8 CP. As I said, Libraries and organization utilities are either built-in or free to obtain. If a utility organizes your media files under Windows 7, it will work in Windows 8 Pro, generally.

    And when it comes to transferring media files or whole Libraries between storage devices, Windows 8 has built-in tools and a visual presentation which run circles around Windows 7, in my experience.
    Last edited by bobprimak; 2012-05-10 at 18:20.
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  2. #17
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Bob, It seems recently we have had an influx of Windows trashers. There were several posts in the Windows Columns Forum that the whole content was bad mouthing Windows while praising MAC. Personally I have never used a MAC and have no desire to do so. But you know what, neither do I go to the MAC forums and bad mouth the MAC.

    I have been using Win 8 CP almost 100% of the time since it's release, and it is working exceptionally well. I use the Desktop UI exclusively, sometimes going to Metro to run a search or look for an answer to a question. That's it.

    DrWho was able to use the 32 Bit Win 8 CP to run old 16 Bit games.

    I do not believe this is just another flash in the pan. This will be a great OS for both Desktop and tablet users. Those that simply bad mouth the OS simply because it comes from Redmond should find something more constructive to do.
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  3. #18
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    I think MS decision to not include DVD playback is strictly businse$$, IMHO. A lot of people will now pay the extra $$ for the Pro version just to get the convenience of DVD playback.

    I haven't used Win 8, have been reading about it just to stay informed. I am very happy with Win 7 Pro, so I will probably not be "upgrading" to Win 8 or Win 8 Pro. It seems MS comes out with good OS's every other attempt. To get it right 2 times in a row will be a first IMHO.

    There are negatives to Win 8. I do not use IE, well ONLY when MS FORCES me to do so (always on a MS web site), i.e. to get the download for XP Mode on my system I had to use Active X and Firefox wasn't doing it correctly, I geuss. When I used IE it worked. MS is now integrating IE even more into the Windows RT, giving them an advantage. Just one reason I don't care for IE and MS heavy handedness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by T D Myers View Post
    I think MS decision to not include DVD playback is strictly businse$$, IMHO. A lot of people will now pay the extra $$ for the Pro version just to get the convenience of DVD playback.

    I haven't used Win 8, have been reading about it just to stay informed. I am very happy with Win 7 Pro, so I will probably not be "upgrading" to Win 8 or Win 8 Pro. It seems MS comes out with good OS's every other attempt. To get it right 2 times in a row will be a first IMHO.

    There are negatives to Win 8. I do not use IE, well ONLY when MS FORCES me to do so (always on a MS web site), i.e. to get the download for XP Mode on my system I had to use Active X and Firefox wasn't doing it correctly, I geuss. When I used IE it worked. MS is now integrating IE even more into the Windows RT, giving them an advantage. Just one reason I don't care for IE and MS heavy handedness.
    Microsoft is not preventing any other browser vendor from creating a WinRT browser. Mozilla has already announced they are developing a WinRT Metro style browser. Others will too.

    Joe

  5. #20
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    But Microsoft is not allowing alternative browser development on the desktop in RT unlike IE which gives IE a leg up. See:
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/25537...html#tk.hp_pop

    Jerry

  6. #21
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    I haven't yet tried out Win8 and some of the comments here suggest to me that it may well not be worth the bother (just as Vista wasn't) - hence I've found them useful. By the way, suggesting that people who are critical of Win8 should take their comments elsewhere strikes me (to put it bluntly) as a real **** move.
    Last edited by JoeP517; 2012-05-11 at 15:14. Reason: content

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    But Microsoft is not allowing alternative browser development on the desktop in RT unlike IE which gives IE a leg up. See:
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/25537...html#tk.hp_pop

    Jerry
    Do you realize that the desktop in RT is only for the four included Ofiice apps, IE functions that don't run in WinRT, & possibly some Windows utility programs that don't run in WinRT? You can't install applications in the WinRT desktop.

    Joe

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by - bill View Post
    I haven't yet tried out Win8 and some of the comments here suggest to me that it may well not be worth the bother (just as Vista wasn't) - hence I've found them useful. By the way, suggesting that people who are critical of Win8 should take their comments elsewhere strikes me (to put it bluntly) as a real **** move.
    The objection(s) to the posts such as #5, #7, #9, #11, & #12 appear to me that those posts are nothing but opinions with a shred of information about actually having used Windows 8. This is not a forum to just come and complain about what Microsoft is or is not doing just to be complaining. We actually try to engage in mostly civil discourse about problem solving. Differences of opinion and disagreements are perfectly fine. Opinion just start or enlarge a flame war are not welcome. Unwarranted and unsubstantiated criticisms of a vendor are a violation of our rules #11 & #23. See Lounge Rules.

    Joe

  9. #24
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by - bill View Post
    I haven't yet tried out Win8 and some of the comments here suggest to me that it may well not be worth the bother (just as Vista wasn't) - hence I've found them useful. By the way, suggesting that people who are critical of Win8 should take their comments elsewhere strikes me (to put it bluntly) as a real **** move.
    I never said that someone critical of Win 8 should take their comments elsewhere. What I said was that flaming (bad mouthing) MS and Windows (Not just Win 8 by the way) for the sake of complaining about MS is not wanted here. These comments were simply complaints about MS and/or Windows without complaining about a certain feature that has been tested and found wanting or some other thing about Win 8 CP. In fact several of the posts do not even mention Win 8 CP at all. They just flame MS. As if MS is the only company trying to make a buck.

    If someone what's to criticize a feature of Win 8 CP, I might even agree because there are some things I do not like about Win 8 CP. I do not particularly care for the Metro UI, but then again I do not have a tablet. I actually hated the Metro IE 10 and set mine to always use the Desktop IE 10 which I really like.

    So please at least test Win 8 CP, and soon Win 8 RP prior to bashing it. You might actually find you like it. I still haven't made up my mind, but it is open to the possibility that Win 8 will be my new OS.
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  10. #25
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    I appreciate your response, JoeP, but it doesn't stand up to real scrutiny:

    1. Claiming that someone is 'complaining just to be complaining' rather than registering an opinion to be counted in the universe of opinions being offered (starting with post #2, which covered the ground so well that not much additional detail seemed to me to be necessary) should require actual evidence, not just an 'appear to me' first impression. If you've got posting histories to back up that claim that's one thing; if not, please try to accumulate some before making such assessments public (it's one thing for a random poster to offer up such an assessment - and for another to criticize him for inviting other posters to leave based upon it - but quite another for a moderator to do so).

    Everyone posting in this thread has been here well over a year, and most date back more than 2 (to the Great December 2009 Influx if not before). So it seems obvious that the posters here being critical of this change in Win8 did not join up specifically to trash Win8 but rather are (especially in the cases of those for whom this is their first or second post) sufficiently concerned about the direction in which Microsoft is taking it to express their opinion now.

    Suggesting to such people that their opinions are not welcome here does not sit well with me at all: I'd like to think that Windows Secrets isn't the kind of place where thought police (whether self-appointed or not) enforce a kind of ideological purity, and have no hesitation in commenting on any such behavior that seems to be occurring.

    2. Post #5 does extend post #2's (and post #4's - which for some reason you didn't include in your list - implicit) observation that many will be disgruntled by listing some of the options they have (Mac and linux, not to mention just sticking with Win7) other than the one that Microsoft would like them to take. Some people WILL exercise such options, so the question (raised in post #2) is whether the cost of including the features in desktop/laptop versions of Win8 really would exceed the non-zero but harder to quantify losses incurred by not doing so. Whether this (plus other perceived deficiencies) will make Win8 a 'disaster' (was Vista a 'disaster'? I don't know, but it certainly wasn't a resounding success) remains to be seen, of course, and people with differing opinions will likely express them.

    3. Post #7 compares the removal of the feature in Win8 with the user reaction to the removal of a (different) feature in another product. Such a response to the "Don't worry - be happy!" tenor of post #6 is entirely pertinent. Post #8 (again for some reason absent in your list, though it certainly doesn't demonstrate any experience with Win8) gives a specific example of why this could be considered user-unfriendly. Post #9 expresses something similar even if it's a bit muddled (my impression is that WMP ships with Win8 even if the DVD codecs plus some other codecs and Media Center do not).

    4. I don't know enough about Win8 to assess the credibility of the claims in post #11, though my impression is that it certainly doesn't go out of its way to be immediately approachable by users accustomed to the existing desktop interface (yes, they can get it back if they make the effort, but how many will?). Post #12 is a spot-on elaboration of post #5's observation.

    5. The wording in forum Rule 11 is clear, and nothing here violates it (expressing an opinion about the importance of a clearly-documented aspect of a product is not the same as making an assertion that a problem exists). There's also nothing which obviously violates Rule 23: while some statements here do not reflect a high opinion of Microsoft's business acuity and/or direction, they hardly rise to the level of being defamatory.

  11. #26
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    You know Bill, just because a person has been a registered member of the Lounge since Dec. 2009 does not mean that person has been active in the Lounge since then, or even has been visiting regularly since then. If a person has been a regular visitor since Dec. 2009 I would have to believe they would have found a few threads to have posted some kind of response to. Most of these members have not posted at all until now. I find this odd, in the extreme, don't you.

    Do you really think this:

    "It's quite obvious that everyone is missing the point about MonopolySoft removing DVD playback in Win 8 (now officially called Windows ME3).

    ME3 was and is being written for tablet and phone use only. How may tablets or cell phones have built in DVD players?

    MonoploySoft is trying to rid the world of power users and put everyone on the same level. "

    is any more than a complaint about MS itself.

    or this:

    "More ammo to the " I am a pc" vs "I am a Mac" debate. Imagine a version of MAC that will not include DVD playback! Only MS knows how to screw up a good thing! "

    These posts are from "members with a total of 2 and 1 post each. Come on, to me these are simply bashes against MS or posts for Macs. I would be surprised if either of these members have actually tested Win 8 CP. At least you have said you have not tried it.

    One of the problems I have with these type posts is the affect they have on members like you. You have not tried Win 8 CP, and "I haven't yet tried out Win8 and some of the comments here suggest to me that it may well not be worth the bother (just as Vista wasn't) - hence I've found them useful." Hence these flammers have convinced you that Win 8 CP or Win 8 RP or even Win 8 is not worth even trying.

    Please take the time to read through the many threads with numerous positive comments on Win 8 CP you will see here before making this decision.
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  12. #27
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    You just don't get it, Ted. It's really not your business to try to censor opinions that don't happen to match your own, let alone to claim to be doing so for the 'benefit' of people who might otherwise be influenced by them. I don't WANT that 'benefit', thank you: I'm perfectly capable of deciding on my own what to take away from such posts (just as I'm perfectly capable of deciding what to take away from yours).

    My point in noting that these people had been around here for 1+ to 2+ years was clear, had you read it more carefully: they obviously didn't join up to rag on Win8 because there was nothing to say about it back when they joined. The fact that they haven't posted much until now does not seem 'odd' to me at all: a lot of members are more inclined to read than to write, and keeping quiet rather than babbling away when you have nothing particular you wish to contribute is a virtue, at least in my book. Rather, the fact that they have now been motivated to post seems an indication of the level of their personal dissatisfaction with the direction Microsoft is taking with what they might otherwise be inclined to use for their next system purchase, and making it public (especially to Microsoft, if anyone from there ever drops in here to listen) that such dissatisfaction exists is if anything a public service.

    I don't care that these people don't appreciate Win8 any more than I care that you like it: people look for different things from operating systems and environments, and the fact that you may find a bunch of OTHER Win8 features compelling really has nothing to do with the subject of THIS thread (which is the specific removal of some Win7 features that some people obviously don't consider as unimportant as you do). The comment that "Imagine a version of MAC that will not include DVD playback! Only MS knows how to screw up a good thing! " is, as I noted before, spot-on in terms of such relevance: as Tinto Tech observed back at the start of the thread and several others expanded upon later, this is the kind of 'own goal' that Microsoft could have easily avoided - and so obvious a one that speculation about how this happened is hardly inappropriate.

    I didn't think WIn8 sounded like a system I'd be interested in before this thread, and I think so even less now. It takes at least SOME time to download, install, become familiar with, and check out a new user environment (NT-based though it still may be), so since there's nothing in Win8 that I know of to make spending that time worthwhile for me my main reason for doing so would simply be curiosity - and the less likely Win8 seems to be something I might NEED to become familiar with, the less curious I get. I had the same reaction to Vista and waited until Win7 to get familiar with Microsoft's post-XP take on things (not that I find all of Vista/Win7's 'innovations' useful either, but at least in Win7 they're reasonably well-integrated). Win7 was sufficiently acceptable (along with over 2 decades of immersion in the Windows and before that DOS infrastructure) to keep me from moving to linux, but Win8 is making investigating that option look more interesting again.

    In any event, my main point is that it's not your (or anyone else's) place to castigate people as 'trashers' and 'flammers' (sic), let alone tell them to take a hike when you don't happen to appreciate what they're saying. And that's ESPECIALLY true for people who are jumping into the discussion here for the first time (some welcome, huh?). Just point out where you disagree and let the rest of the world decide for themselves whose observations they find more applicable - at least that's what Joe's response to me seemed to be saying was the desired behavior.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to - bill For This Useful Post:

    emr313 (2012-05-12)

  14. #28
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I am going to make one final point in this thread and then I'm done here. It will most likely fall on deaf ears anyway.

    MS is called Monopolysoft, they are sued and bashed because they provide an OS with all apps included. Hell they have to make a special version in Europe that does not include a browser because they are sued and forced to pull the browser out for Win 7.

    They are now being threatened with lawsuits again because they are including an AV product in Win 8.

    It seems they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. They can provide an OS with everything included and get sued and have to start removing parts. Or they can provide an OS that is somewhat stripped down and force users to seek out 3rd party alternatives (which are usually more full featured anyway) and are damned by those very users. It seems they can't win!
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  15. #29
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    While that's a much more appropriate approach than attacking those who have a different view of things than you do, it's still not particularly relevant to the subject of this thread (a specific change in features in Win8 from Win7 which, at least according to Microsoft's explanatory link in post #1, had nothing to do with lawsuits). Being a Defender of the Faith (not that there's anything wrong with that per se) can sometimes blind one to such finer distinctions.

  16. #30
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    HI Ted,
    Not ready to weigh in on Win8 just yet, but I dig your new picture! I'm sure I'll get to 8 in time, don't use media center, have a wifi blue ray player, and don't get to watch much anyway as I'm not really home enough lately, so that's nothing to me. When I do try it will give my opinion in the lounge. Happy Saturday!!

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