Imaging a hard drive again (and again)

[DrWho]

Dgwx,
Send me a bus ticket and I'll come out there and show you how to do all that. Eh? (I do love TDY or Road Trips)

The program I use, "Ghost 11.5" can do all that. It can do a Partition to Image, or a Partition to Partition, or a Disk to Image, or a disk to disk (clone)

In any case it can work well with disks of different sizes, as long as the data from one will fit on the other. NO Problemo!

In the normal course of events, (my weekly backup) I only use the "Partition to Image" option, with FAST Compression.
The backup starts with the MBR (boot Sector) and copies the entire C: drive, file by file. (NOT the Pagefile or empty spaces)
It's a file copier, not a bit-copier, so it perfectly maintains file integrity. The files go into the backup just as they are copied from the HD, just like you would copy a file from your HD to a Flash Drive, for instance. I can pick either NO Compression, FAST Compression or HIGH Compression, ideal for backing up to DVD's.

The size of data in the backup file is all that's really important, not the size of the drive it's being restored to.
So you could back up 200 gigs of data, from a 1TB drive and restore that data to a 500 gig HD, with no problem.

Every decent backup program should work that way, but from what I've read on these forums, that's not always the case.

Ghost will even let me clone a 1TB drive to a 500 gig drive, as long as the data will fit.
I think that's similar to what you were talking about. Eh?
In fact, that's exactly what I did, when I got my new 1TB drive. I had two partitions on my old 500 gig drive and Ghost portioned out the space on the 1TB drive perfectly. ("I love it when a plan comes together")

Good Luck!
The Doctor

[billrice]

I have heard mediocre things about Norton Ghost, but I have been using it since V.12 (Now at 16) on both XP and 7 and it has saved my tail many, many times. It even lets you restore individual files out of the system back up and can be set to automatically back up. Works great for me.

[dgwx]

Yeah DW, thats what i want. I have an NG 9.01 CD, is that likely to work with Win7 and would it do what I want? (I have all kinds of stuff laying around here, i need to index it someday) Can it be run off the CD or would I have to install it? I seem to remember that NG puts some kind of "I was here" file on the hard drive and its generally a PIB to get rid of.

I guess, since I am assured that Ghost will do what I want, that I should just buy the latest version and get on with it. I doubt I can find a copy of 11.5.

[dgwx]

Might as well go for the gold, does NG also do backups? Like full or differential ones and lets me select the folders that I want to backup?

[- bill]

I guess, since I am assured that Ghost will do what I want, that I should just buy the latest version and get on with it. I doubt I can find a copy of 11.5.

You could do that, or you could use Seagate's free (Acronis-True-Image-based) DiscWizard software that Dr. Who mentioned previously. It's what I usually use, because I've always found it reliable.

1. It may be available as part of 'Sea Tools', but it's certainly available separately as DiscWizard.

2. It is intended to be used only on systems in which at least one Seagate or Maxtor drive is present, but there's a 'technical override' that allows it to be used on any system (this information was originally provided by a Seagate tech, but since I'm not sure it would be acceptable to post it here you can Google around for it - I haven't tried it on the latest version of DiscWizard, but it still worked on the previous one and it avoids the annoyance of having to plug in a USB-connected Seagate/Maxtor drive if one is not already present).

3. It does provide multiple options for compression and its bootable 'Recovery CD' supports most functions (not just recovery).

4. It does support whole-disk as well as individual-partition backup and recovery. Individual partitions can be restored to smaller sizes than they originally contained as long as their file systems are those which DiscWizard understands (obviously, if it doesn't understand the internals of the file system it can't very well figure out how to modify them to fit into smaller spaces).

5. It does support recovery to a smaller disk (as long as all the backed-up data will fit, of course). With a multi-partition disk this may require restoring partitions one-by-one (which you can do from a full-disk backup), in order to specify exactly how the smaller total space should be allocated.

I haven't fooled around enough with other imaging programs to talk about their features and reliability authoritatively, but I suspect you'll find that some have the features you're looking for as well.

[dgwx]

I tried DiscWizard the last time I wanted to image a hard drive, about a year or so ago. Besides the problem with the drives not being Seagate (I didn't know about a technical override, found that info), it would not image a larger drive to a smaller one. It lets you go through the whole setup to do the clone, then when you get to the point where you tell the program to do it, DiscWizard comes back and tells you that the version you have will not do this operation. I also tried the version from the Acronis web site, free or time limited, I forget which, and it does the same thing. That put Acronis near the bottom of my list of software product I might ever pay to use. I did not find this behavior documented anywhere.
Maybe the latest version of DiscWizard will clone to a smaller disk, but if you haven't actually tried it I would not bet on it. I will try it again when I get the time.

[Just Plain Fred]

Maybe the latest version of DiscWizard will clone to a smaller disk, but if you haven't actually tried it I would not bet on it. I will try it again when I get the time.

dgwx,
Hello.... You should try one of the new free versions (5) of Macrium Reflect Regards Fred

PS: Feature comparison Here

[- bill]

I tried DiscWizard the last time I wanted to image a hard drive, about a year or so ago. Besides the problem with the drives not being Seagate (I didn't know about a technical override, found that info), it would not image a larger drive to a smaller one. It lets you go through the whole setup to do the clone...

'Cloning' and 'imaging' are not the same thing. When you said in your earlier post (the one to which I responded),

Second, I want to be able to restore the image to a smaller drive.

you were definitely talking about imaging, not cloning.

DiscWizard, as I described, will allow you to take a full-disk image and then restore it to a smaller drive - and since I've used it to restore individual partition images to smaller targets I'm reasonably confident of that assertion (since the full-disk image can be restored partition-by-partition if need be). When the DiscWizard documentation for the two versions (10 and 11) prior to the current one (13) discusses cloning it talks ONLY about cloning to a drive the same size or larger (the v11 documentation makes this quite clear, though it's easier to miss in v10's).

[dgwx]

Bill,
I was using cloning and imaging interchangeably and yes, an image is what I wanted. Perhaps i was not making the right choices in the application when I last tried to use DiscWizard.

[LinusF3]

I have been a very careful back-up person, remember backing up to casettes of tape on a PC? But I've never done an image. Last week I figured I would use the Win7 Pro Backup + image and see how it works. That has taken me on a trip down Alice's rabbit hole!
I tried to back up to a clean, formatted 2T external drive. After 10 hours (32 bit machine) or so I got a jolt --- Win7 couldn't complete the backup + image. I found error 0x81000033. Horribly written, probably in sub-continent English, saying that there isn't enough space on a drive. Hmm. Maybe. So I did a custom job with few files to backup plus the image. Same outcome. And tons of space left on the external drive. Got on the internet and discovered the "drive" is in fact a reserved system partition and I am maybe 35 MB short to complete.
What to do? Got the files to show and mapped the partition to a drive letter. I chopped 50 MB off the primary, boot, partition. But I have been unable to extend the reserved drive/partition to include the extra 50 MB.
Ideas? Should I give up on Win7 Images?

[mart44]

Hello LinusF3 - 'System Reserved' problems encountered when using Windows 7's disk imaging is (I think) one factor that sends people in the direction of Macrium, Easus and other disk imaging solutions. I have had this trouble myself occasionally and haven't found a real answer to it. The System Reserved partition has to be about 70% free or the imaging procedure will fail, as you have found.

The problem mostly occurs for me when a major update for my security suite is issued and installed. I go to update the disk image so that it includes the update only to find that the image can't be made. The reason being that the System Reserved partition has become something far less than 70% free. How do I over come this? I open Disk Management and look at the properties of the partition. Reboot a few times have another look at the properties and eventually the partition becomes 70% free. Windows 7 disk imaging will then work.

Whether you want to persist is getting the System Reserved down to about 70% free or install some other imaging program might depend on how persistent you want to be. Not a very technical answer I'm afraid but the above usually works on my computer.

I've never used the file backup part of Windows 7. I skip that and go straight for making the image. I can usually remember to back up created files manually.

[LinusF3]

I'm getting my head around this issue in pretty much the same terms. Since posting I have continued to search the 'net and I am amazed at the number of others who have fetched up on this issue. 0x33000081 is a four letter word, or equivalent. In my backup programs I have always looked for "bullet proof" --- otherwise why back up? It is beginning to look like MS has foisted an iffy proposition on us. Sad. Or maybe I was smart to put off imaging?

[mart44]

Despite this problem, I still have a high opinion of Windows 7's own disk imaging function. As said, it is only an occasional occurrence for me and once it has cleared up, it doesn't happen again on its own. There has to be a major update to the security suite or some other change to the system for it to recur. Apart from that, the imaging function works very well. In fact, so well that I can't be convinced that other imaging solutions are better. On the other hand, I appreciate that experiences can be different for one reason or another. If you really can't get W.7's imaging to work, then perhaps consider trying a different program.

[Medico]

You are not smart putting off Imaging. I agree that Win 7 Backup and Restore is a very basic Imaging tool, and can be beaten soundly by any number of 3rd party apps. I realize there are those that do not agree with this point, but the 3rd party apps are just better at Imaging IMHO. I happen to use Acronis True Image Home, both v2010 and v2011. Both work very well for me. I create new Images at least once per month, or more often whenever I make changes to my system. I like to keep my Images as Up To Date as possible.

There are many 3rd party apps, Acronis and Macrium Reflect being the 2 most often discussed here. EaseUS ToDo v4, Ghost and ImgBurn are others discussed herein. All these apps can beat the pants off the Win 7 app IMHO.

[mart44]

There are many 3rd party apps, Acronis and Macrium Reflect being the 2 most often discussed here. EaseUS ToDo v4, Ghost and ImgBurn are others discussed herein. All these apps can beat the pants off the Win 7 app IMHO.

No they don't IMHO. They can all give trouble.