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  1. #1
    Star Lounger
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    Help for freezing PC

    Win 7 HPrem, 6MB RAM, Asus P6T Deluxe Mobo, Nvidia 285GTX, Asus DX2 soundcard, 2 optical drives, USB Floppy drive/reader, 1000W Thermaltake Toughpower PS. I use MBAM, AVAST, and Super-AntiSpyware regularly.

    PC began random freezes during POST. The first lockup I got gave me two minidump files that I read with WhoCrashed, telling me the cause was my Nvidia driver that happened to be the latest WHQL certified driver 301.42. I replaced the driver with an older WHQL certified(the number escapes me at the moment). I just doubt that conclusion. I had been using the Nvidia 301.42 since it came out in April. Anyhow I changed the driver. No joy.....

    The next bootup problem occurred when the PC froze at the black Windows flag screen, the PC rebooted itself and asked if I wanted to do a startup repair that yielded the conclusion under "Problem Signature 07: Bad Driver. The diagnosis & repair details were: "A recent driver or upgrade may be preventing the system from starting." I had done no driver updates or upgrades of any type except for the Nvidia driver in April and Windows updates as required

    So I decide to make use of a recent system image, with no issues and with a barebones install of Windows. I did all the Windows updates,installed AVAST and PC boots up to the desktop and freezes. Event Viewer only shows that the PC shut down unexpectedly. I have to reboot. I let the PC sit awhile and start it and it gets to the black windows screen and hard freezes.

    I installed a temperature monitor and the cores are running 38-41 degs C; right now I'm running memtest. I also did the .Net framework repair because my PC seemed to slow down after that update. I have no hardware attached to my desktop now other than keyboard and mouse. Everything else has been removed. If I am able to get the machine to run, it does so without an issue. I haven't re-seated any of the components yet. The status of my hard drives appears to be "healthy".

    I would appreciate some assistance about what to do next. I am stumped about what could be causing the freezing. Thanks.

    Diane

  2. #2
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Sounds like you already checked the most common reasons for hangs. Can you boot into Safe Mode without hanging? Also, Open up the PC and make sure the fan on the video card is running. I fixed one PC that had a slow fan on the video card that caused the system to randomly crash. Do you have access to a spare video card you could try to eliminate the Nvidea card as a cause?

    Jerry

  3. #3
    Star Lounger
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    Jerry:

    Thanks for answering. PC always freezes on first bootup in the AM. Tomorrow morning, I will attempt to bootup in Safe Mode. Question...if it boots into Safe Mode, then what would be the next thing? Would that give a clue as to the cause?

    I don't have a spare video card; I'm not sure how to check fan speeds or how I would know if the fans are running slowly. I'm going to have my husband do the power supply check. I also might have him clear CMOS while he's in there, but I don't know what else to try. I also found in my reading to try Seagate's SeaTools to check out my 2 hard drives. I hope I can figure this out as I'm sure these reboots aren't really good for the components. Thanks again.

    Diane

  4. #4
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    If your system doesn't crash upon startup and runs fine in safemode, then that would tends to point to a driver issue.
    If you still do get crashes in safemode, then I would be suspicious about a hardware issue, specifically the GPU, since you are already getting GPU related errors.
    You can also try reseating the GTX and checking the power cable too, also ensure that the memory is seated firlmly as well.

    The CPU temps are a bit warm for a freshly turned on computer at idle, but still well within specs.
    If your CPU heatsink and fan were loose then I would suspect the temps would be alot higher, but you should check on it all the same,
    as long as your in there looking.
    Last edited by CLiNT; 2012-06-19 at 17:01.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    In many cases a visual check of the video card fan will tell you its not spinning fast or even not spinning at all. In the PC I experienced the problem , the fan would alternate between spinning slowly and faster.

    If it boots into Safe Mode, that indicates a driver, Service, or startup item is causing your problem. You could try using the Clean Boot diagnostic procedure to narrow the problem down. See http://support.microsoft.com/kb/331796 . ignore the Microsoft Fixit that pops up and read the procedure. If it hangs in Clean boot and not in safe mode, its probably a driver issue.

    Jerry

  6. #6
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    If it's freezing during POST, it's hardware.

  7. #7
    Star Lounger
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    So, I finished Memtest, no issues. Ran SeaTools and both drives passed.

    This morning I was able to get the PC to boot in Safe Mode and restarted the machine successfully and I'm using it now w/o an issue.

    So I haven't done a Clean Boot Diagnostic because I've never had to, which I presume is the next step. Since this PC seems to only act up after it's been off for a good while, how will I be able to tell which driver is the culprit?

    Should I still have the power supply tested? We are going to open up the case clean it and reseat everything.

    I am thinking about the optional updates I allowed Windows to do when I first restored the PC. Windows recommended the Nvidia driver be updated, along with the Marvell Yukon driver for my onboard network adapter. I allowed Windows to update my Razer Lachesis mouse and my Razer Lycosa keyboard. For some reason the keyboard appears twice on the list of updates. Windows updated "ATK-system-ATK0110 ACPI utility, whatever that is. What I did not allow to be updated was the "Marvell Inc-storage-Marvell 61xx RAID Controller" because I don't have a RAID setup. Maybe that was a mistake.

    I also thought about loading the video driver from disk that came with this PC when it was new, but I got two video driver errors for two different WHQL certified drivers and I doubt those drivers are at fault. Thanks for your help and patience.

    Diane


    PS After I wrote the above message, I shut the PC down for awhile about 2 hours or so; I just now tried to boot into Windows in normal mode and was stuck on the 'Welcome" screen. The little circle stopped spinning.....so I can't CTL-ALT-DEL, but must reset. When I do, I get the desktop background, taskbar and no icons. I move the mouse and I get the Windows startup sound and miraculously everything on the desktop, icons and gadgets all appear.

    When I go to Event Viewer, I see 19 Service Control Manager errors but these all have to do with the Safe Mode bootup.Several of them have to do with Network Service and are ID7001's, i.e., DNS client service depends on TDI support drivers which failed to start because a device attached to the system is not functioning; winsock service failed to start because a device attached to the sytem is not functioning; following boot, start or system start driver failed to load and on and on.....I did not find any such messages after the hangup in normal mode. Sorry if this is just too much info, but I am floundering a bit now. There were also a half dozen or so DCom errors.
    Last edited by PeachesP; 2012-06-20 at 08:03.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    The Razer drivers are likely to be part of the problem, try the latest from the Razer site or force Windows Device Manager to load it as a standard mouse type (this should disable/unload the Razer drivers) to test.

    All 3rd party drivers are best updated via the chipset/device makers sites, Microsoft/Device Manager updated drivers are frequently many months behind.

  9. #9
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    My main protocol for driver updates is don't. As for driver updates through Windows Update, never.

    Unless there is a specific, identifiable issue that points directly to a driver, there is no real reason for updating a driver.

    If a driver issue starts showing up on normally long-running trouble-free hardware, there's a better chance that it's the hardware itself, and not the driver.

    As satrow said in post #6, if it's freezing during POST, it's hardware. I have seen a power supply give all the symptoms of a bad motherboard, and yet the power supply itself checked good with a quality power supply tester. Swapping it out for a known-good power supply was the cure; this after changing out the motherboard twice.
    Create a new drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "Let them that don't want it have memories of not gettin' any." "Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty and the worst I ever had was wonderful." Brother Dave Gardner "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else." Sir Thomas Robert Deware. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
    Unleash Windows

  10. #10
    Gold Lounger
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeachesP View Post

    So I decide to make use of a recent system image, with no issues and with a barebones install of Windows. I did all the Windows updates,installed AVAST and PC boots up to the desktop and freezes. Event Viewer only shows that the PC shut down unexpectedly. I have to reboot. I let the PC sit awhile and start it and it gets to the black windows screen and hard freezes.
    Diane,

    Hello... Am i correct in understanding that after your "Image Install" all was OK ? Then after Avast , and Windows Updates, you then started to have problems again? Regards Fred
    Last edited by Just Plain Fred; 2012-06-20 at 08:55.
    PlainFred

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  11. #11
    Star Lounger
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    Fred, that's right...Windows was running kind of slow and it has been a habit of mine to clean install Windows about once a year or so to avoid this kind of stuff so I did a clean Windows install and used that install image with just an Nividia driver, 301.42 and Avast to create a system image. It's when I got started with adding the Windows updates and "my gotta haves" like MBAM, SAS that I began having these problems.

    I don't mind starting over with a clean Windows install, but I don't have a clue what I will get this time. I do want my husband to check the power supply though before wiping the system clean. I am not good with hardware. He is.

    I'm going to remove the drivers for the keyboard and mouse and just run them as HID's temporarily.To be on the safe side, I have re-run MBAM, Avast and I haven't installed SAS back in because I haven't gotten that far in getting the PC back to where it was. I ran the Kaspersky online scanner and it found no problems with viruses, malware or protection.

    I appreciate all suggestions.Thanks to all.

    Diane
    Last edited by PeachesP; 2012-06-20 at 09:37.

  12. #12
    Star Lounger
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    Okay, I uninstall my Razer mouse and keyboard, use HID generic devices, I bootup,go thru POST, get to the desktop, open FFox and lockup hard. I then put in my Win7 disk and start a clean install. I will do no hardware updating, will get just my anti-virus and do a few Windows updates at a time and then reboot. Very, very frustrating, but I'm using a generic kb & mouse, so if anything was left in the system of the Windows updates, they are now gone.

  13. #13
    Star Lounger
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    I logged on to my PC this morning which was when I experienced the freezeups....with the generic keyboard and mouse, Windows vanilla video driver, no sound, AVAST and all Windows updates incl SP1. It was the first successful bootup in a while. I would guess the reason why my system image did not work was probably because of the hardware updates that I had done thru Windows for the mouse, KB, videocard and onboard network card. Lesson well learned....if PC keeps running like this.

    I was able to get online and get FFox installed and clicking on a website didn't crash me yet. I checked EV and the startup looks very clean. I'll get sound card drivers installed next and move a bit cautiously as I add my stuff back in. Thanks to all who offered their help. Hopefully, hardware failure won't be/isn't an issue.

  14. #14
    5 Star Lounger RussB's Avatar
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    Help for freezing PC
    I find it best to vacuum pack your PC before freezing, it will keep longer this way.
    HTH
    Do you "Believe"? Do you vote? Please Read:
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  15. #15
    Star Lounger
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    What would be more helpful would be a DBK...

    Anyhow, added soundcard drivers, MBAM and the .Net Framework updates I rec'd notice for this morning. Let the PC cool down for awhile, and then rebooted.

    No issues so far, but HDD a mess- am defragging.

    Unless I have more issues will post back in a few more days with presumably a final conclusion. Thanks again to the fine members of this forum.
    Last edited by PeachesP; 2012-06-21 at 09:06.

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