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  1. #1
    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    Post An editorial: no bias, no evangelism

    Point being voiced is that in designing and building Windows8 the goals of the Team addressed many things. One of the most major areas of attention being business focused.

    Some seemed to think MS had created Win8 as 'Social Networking' toy and not for traditional PCs and laptops (both of which are HUGE in the work/biz community) or for serious corp settings. The reality is very much the antithesis of this.

    People take things as confrontational ...cus things are described does not say anyone must run out and buy Win8 and everything before is rubbish. BUT, there is something, absolutely, fundamental that is, oft, being missed. It doesn't matter whether one uses Win8 or likes it or not... Point is what makes it whatever and why is that cool or is it cool?... The fact that certain design goals were met and what they were is, in and of itself what makes Windows8 have value.

    These transcend any specific items, details, Features, good or bad, preferred or not. But, these Basics that may be surprisingly, ironically & unexpectedly missed are what make the OS shine.

    >Has made itself appealing to enterprise environments
    >Vast compatibility base, both hardware and software
    >Be happy on various devices, past, present and future - this, including mobile devices and touch screens, as well as conventional desktop PCs and laptops
    >Be fast(er)
    > Not be resource demanding
    >Be enhanced and or improved in several technical areas such as boot time, networking, connectivity, CPU and RAM handling, hardware assets access, graphics and more.
    > Have native security enabled by default.
    > Allow (easy) 'Build you own APPs" (Windows Dev Center: Tools, samples and docs to build Windows apps)
    > Have an 'eye' to the future of computing
    > And More


    Comparisons, aside, the mere fact that Win8 met its design goals makes it a sound, solid piece of work.

    There is a fair bit, new or revamped, in Windows8 that is worthwhile and either better than before (it) or didn't, even, exist 'til, now. Other Windows have been or are good, in many ways... at least, as good as those,Windows8 turns a significant and inevitable corner on the road of modern computing.

    The tile 'Start' screen and skepticism should not cloud or mask all that makes it possible to see Win8 in a good light

    And it remains that whether, subjectively, one likes it, choses to like it, uses it now or later, by choice or otherwise...

    An OS that met its (lofty) design goals and JUST for that it ends up earning kudos.

    Cheers,
    Drew
    Last edited by Drew1903; 2012-06-24 at 04:21.

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  3. #2
    Super Moderator satrow's Avatar
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    Interesting opinion.

  4. #3
    Super Moderator BATcher's Avatar
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    I keep getting put off when reading these frequent pieces by the (to me) infuriating and unnecessary replacement of "and" by "&", and "at" by "@", throughout. I would wish that it were not done. It colours my entire view of what is being said to the extent that I must discount the opinion expressed.
    Last edited by BATcher; 2012-06-24 at 03:34.
    BATcher

    If it wasn't for the weather, Great Britain would be a silent nation.

  5. #4
    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    There you go. All &s and @s have been replaced with words.

    Cheers,
    Drew

  6. #5
    Super Moderator BATcher's Avatar
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    Thank you!
    BATcher

    If it wasn't for the weather, Great Britain would be a silent nation.

  7. #6
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    The more I use Win 8 RP, the more I find that I like Win 8 RP. I do not switch back and forth between Win 7 and Win 8 RP. I stay on Win 8 RP 100% of the time. (Well actually I do go back to Win 7 once in a while. I have to apply updates when necessary). I have been able to accomplish everything I want to do using Win 8 RP.

    Has it met it's design goals? Well lets see, one goal was to be able to use it across multiple categories of devices, cross-platform I believe is the terminology often used (If I have misspoken on the terminology I'm sorry). There are Win 8 phones in development that do by everything, I have read, meet that goal by being able to run Win 8 very effectively and run the same Metro apps as Win 8 RT or Win 8 Pro. (Discussed in more detail in this article)

    The soon to be released Surface tablet is designed for Win 8. The RT version is expected at the time of Win 8 final release, with the Pro version coming 2 or 3 months later. By all accounts I have read, this could be a ground breaking tablet, especially in the Pro version. Has MS alienated it's OEM manufacturers, possibly, but it will ensure they design comparable tablets if they expect to compete. Again the Pro version will run the exact same OS as any desktop or laptop.

    Now we get to the traditional desktop and laptop PCs (I have grouped these 2 categories together for as they are both conventional, mainstream PCs) My laptop runs Win 8 RP very well with a few customizations. You say well why then do you have to customize? Well in most cases I have applied the same customizations to Win 7 long before Win 8 DP was released. In fact most of the customizations were carried over directly from Win 7. I have installed most of the apps I used in Win 7 to Win 8 RP. The only apps I have not installed are apps I seldom use. In most cases the installer .exe were stored on my data drive from when I installed these apps on Win 7. I simply executed the installers from the data drive and they installed fine.

    My laptop is, in my estimation, much quicker. It does boot and shutdown faster (I generally shutdown each evening). Apps tend to spring into being more quickly than on Win 7. I believe this is due to the way Win 8 RP utilizes memory. When I check system resource usage I see resources used less than with Win 7 (in my case comparisons show approx. 10 to 15 % less used CPU cycles and Ram than Win 7). Less resources gives more resources available when multitasking, and leads to lower operating temperatures, thus hopefully long life span and longer mean time between failures.

    So in this one category, Win 8 RP has met that design goal, IMHO. The same basic code is used across multiple platform devices. The way these apps are called upon are slightly different on phone versus laptops for example, but the same app using the same base code is used for all platforms.
    Last edited by Medico; 2012-06-24 at 06:22.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
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  8. #7
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    They may have met their design goals but they haven't met mine which is to provide a productive desktop experience. I still find myself fighting the OS to do what I want with its annoying hotspots and the need to go to Metro for program launching. You can cludge around it by installing third party apps but I see no reason I need to carry around the Metro touch baggage in my desktop OS just because its a Microsoft design goal. Again, its a little faster but Windows 7 is plenty fast enough for me.

    To each his own. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out....

    Jerry

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwitalka View Post
    I still find myself fighting the OS to do what I want with its annoying hotspots and the need to go to Metro for program launching.

    Jerry
    I pretty much agreed with this until the Release Preview came out. The hot spots sucked before. Now they are just as easy to access as was the old Start Menu. Once I customize my Start screen it feels no different to me than using Windows 7. Its just another "flavor" of the traditional Start menu. But even with Win 7, aside from my work machine, I've been using some version of Object Dock because its so much faster than the Start menu.
    Chuck

  10. #9
    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    and the need to go to Metro for program launching
    There is (actually) NO need to go to Start to launch programs.

    Cheers,
    Drew

  11. #10
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    We have discussed several customizations that allow additions to the taskbar that allow any app to be opened without going to the Metro UI. Since I also customize my Win 7 taskbar the same way, I do not consider this anything special to make Win 8 RP work the way I want it.

    Lets see:

    1) add Classic Shell to Taskbar
    2) Add All Apps folder to taskbar
    3) Add special folder containing Shortcuts to most used apps
    4) Add Programs Toolbar to taskbar

    The last 3 things require no additional downloaded apps. They are all included within Windows. There have been other discussions, but these will suffice. I spend more than 99% of my time on the desktop. I DO NOT go to Metro to launch apps, far from it.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  12. #11
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    Desktop by itself.

    Hello, Ted.
    >>> I DO NOT go to Metro to launch apps, far from it. <<<

    As much as I hate saying this, I agree 100% with you. On my screen all there is visible is Desktop. I use W-8 just like I used W-7 and enjoy a bit more readiness to come up. No tile at all, this will have to wait until I acquire a Surf Ace, I might then be swayed to use touch. Time will tell.

  13. #12
    Bronze Lounger Drew1903's Avatar
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    Sorry 'h36', don't know your name,

    Many of us, including, myself, conduct all our activities @, on & from Desktop w/out ever visiting Start or needing to, except to hit the Desktop tile (and, quite nicely, w/out Touch, btw.

    Cheers,
    Drew

  14. #13
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by handcuff36 View Post
    Hello, Ted.
    As much as I hate saying this, I agree 100% with you. On my screen all there is visible is Desktop. I use W-8 just like I used W-7 and enjoy a bit more readiness to come up. No tile at all, this will have to wait until I acquire a Surf Ace, I might then be swayed to use touch. Time will tell.
    No need to "Hate to say it" JP, there is nothing incorrect with staying on the Desktop UI. I also believe the Metro UI was designed for touch devices, and quite frankly, not those devices where the real work will be done. The Surface Pro might be the exception. Perhaps the introduction of the Surface will spur other OEM manufacturer's to up their game a little to compete.

    As I have said many times, I spend almost 100% of my time on the Desktop and do ALL of my computing here.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Myers View Post
    We have discussed several customizations that allow additions to the taskbar that allow any app to be opened without going to the Metro UI. Since I also customize my Win 7 taskbar the same way, I do not consider this anything special to make Win 8 RP work the way I want it.

    Lets see:

    1) add Classic Shell to Taskbar
    2) Add All Apps folder to taskbar
    3) Add special folder containing Shortcuts to most used apps
    4) Add Programs Toolbar to taskbar

    The last 3 things require no additional downloaded apps. They are all included within Windows. There have been other discussions, but these will suffice. I spend more than 99% of my time on the desktop. I DO NOT go to Metro to launch apps, far from it.
    This is a more of a general reply, but I've used Ted's comment to illustrate the question I pose......

    If one customises Windows 7 and customises Windows 8 in the same manner, i.e. to make them look and feel similar, what benefits (real world benefits, as opposed to marketing speak) are there in the new OS?


    Well, here goes....
    • There is a reduced memory footprint. But is a few 10's of MB really that important?
    • There is an improved memory manager, but I've yet to see any empirical data that says it makes a real world difference (i.e. one that a human being can measure and re-create, on like for like pristine clean installs).
    • Improved disk management, data correction and recovery. This is a big technical improvement, but how many people will notice it?
    • Improved user security. How many people complain about user security and simply turn it off, or take ownership of folder and files that are dangerous anyway? Will this change with improved user education, or will we still see requests along the lines of "I am the administrator, so why can't I delete file xyz..?"
    • Boot times are reduced. Good, but by placing the metro interface in the way of the desktop at boot time, the time taken to get to a usable work-space is unnecessarily lengthened. Also, most of us are running almost pristine Windows 8 installs, so what is the direct comparison against a comparative Windows 7 install?



    I could go on and on listing the improvements, but I think people would get the incorrect idea about my point. The bullet points above can be argued over to and fro for ever: they are not my contention - no, my observation is that by pushing a somewhat "different" UI upon users, more customisation will occur and that could lead to a watering down of the improvements under the hood.

    As Ted is (justifiably) fond of saying, these things are called Personal computers, and our setups are our personal choice; but if we see the a large number of users customise their desktops to look and behave as if they are Windows 7 machines, what does that say about those users' reaction to the implementation of Windows 8 design goals and will people be choosing Windows 8 for it's under-the-hood OS improvements or simply because it's the only game in town?
    In God we trust; all others must bring data.

    - William Edwards Deming. 1900 - 1993

  16. #15
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    Tinto, that's a great overall view. I agree with most things you wrote and I actually think MS did a good job, in the sense that for current W7 users, W8 will be even better, but at the very least ensures that there will be no negative surprises, while getting the tablet OS that it needed to compete with the the current market darling. That will be complemented with what seems to be great hardware that, in my view, will make the iPad look quite hampered. I just hope the Surface offerings show up in enough numbers and not restricted to the US.

    There is also the overall strategy, that includes WP8 and the XBox (Paul Thurrot summarized it quite well). All in all, I think MS will do quite well and it's looking recently as a surprising innovator in multiples areas. Things look pretty interesting for users of Microsoft technologies.

    As for users going with a W7 looking W8, I wonder whether that is really relevant? The fact that you can actually configure Windows to suit the way you work is a good option, IMO. I think W8 and its Metro implementation will take some more time to mature and I think not many of current Windows users of traditional desktops and laptops would be ready for a revolutionary change. I am a daily user of Metro on my phone, but I am a bit more conservative on using it on my PCs, especially on my workhorse desktop. I actually doubt Metro willl be an effective interface for the desktop, where I do a lot of dev work.

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