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  1. #1
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    What are Microsoft's goals for Windows 8?

    What are Microsoft's Goals for Windows 8?

    Microsoft has announced some of it's goals, such as faster startup and shutdown times, and having one operating system for everything from phones to tablets to notebooks and laptops to desktops. I think that what would be a better idea, is having one core operating system, and then having an operating system forked from the core for each platform.

    Others while unannounced are pretty obvious, such as establishing a position in phones and tablets, and having a common interface across all supported devices. Since the desktop doesn't work for phones and tables, Microsoft will try, very hard, to get desktop and laptop users to adopt the Metro UI. They want to move people away from the desktop, and would like to delete it altogether. The idea, is that if you have been using Metro UI on a desktop computer, you will then be able to pick up a Windows phone, and everything will be the same, there will be no learning curve, and sales will increase.

    The UI in Windows 9 will be interesting. Either the Start Button will be back, or the desktop will be gone entirely. If Microsoft has to bring the start button back Balmer and Sinofsky will be gone.

    More and more I am starting to think that Microsoft is adopting the Dell philosophy towards the Bios to Windows. Dell Doesn't like people configuring things in the Bios, because some people screw it up, and that generates service calls. If they remove an attribute from the Bios, then people can't screw it up, and it makes life easier for Dell. I became aware of this when I was trying to install VMware ESXi on a Dell Precision 470 workstation, and there was no CPUID attribute in the Bios.

    I think that Microsoft is deliberately making it harder to get under the hood, to keep people from screwing it up, and this will cause Microsoft to have fewer problems. I think this is one of their goals for Windows 8.

    Another goal, which is announced, is to have an Apps Store. What they don't say, but is pretty obvious, is that the Apps Store will be a revenue stream, and Microsoft hopes that it will be an important revenue stream. They want to have users going to the App Store and buying things that will generate income for Microsoft. So things like Gadgets that don't go through the apps store, and don't generate income, will be deprecated, and when there is a problem with them, instead of fixing the problem, Microsoft will kill them outright. This seems to apply to every kind of software that you would buy and install on your computer. They want you to buy it from the App store, and are going to make it as hard and awkward as possible to do anything else.

    Everything from Games, anti-virus, utilities, to simple productivity like Office will be available from the App store.

    And not everyone is going to hate it. For most computer users, Simple is better, and as Microsoft has seen from Apple and Android, a lot of people are comfortable buying everything that they need from the App store.

    So what is your option, if you don't want to be cut off from the desktop model? For me, in the short term, It's Windows 7. I can probably use Windows 7 for the next ten years. I only recently changed over from Windows 2000, and I only switched to XP, because there got to be too many things that wouldn't run on Windows 2000. I switched to Windows 7, because I like it, but I won't be switching to Windows 8, because I don't. If I like Windows 9 or 10, that will be my upgrade, and if I don't I will go to Linux.

    I work, and in Enterprise environments, most companies have just recently moved from Windows XP to Windows 7 after skipping Vista. Even if they liked Windows 8, they wouldn't upgrade to it for two to three years. Since they won't like it, they will stay with Windows 7 until forced to Upgrade, probably to Windows 9.

    I haven't used PowerShell a lot, because there are other good tools for Systems administration, but I recently downloaded and installed the Windows 2012 Core Server. I tried to use PowerShell to start the Management tools. I couldn't find them. Maybe they are there, if so somebody else will find them, and I'll find out from them.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    They want to move people away from the desktop, and would like to delete it altogether.

    So what is your option, if you don't want to be cut off from the desktop model?
    Can you point to some solid evidence of MS wanting to delete the desktop? And I'm not talking about the opinion pieces of the tech press. The new Start menu is a paradigm shift. Yes, it is still the Start Menu, albeit very different and with the live tiles and all. It is highly customizable, and if you read the many threads on the subject, doesn't even need to be used if you so choose. The desktop is one simple click away. And all of your desktop apps can be launched from it the same as the traditional Start Menu. So far all of my personal desktop apps run just fine in Win 8. The desktop model is alive and well. Will it die someday? It might. Consumer usage will drive the needs more than anything. The simplicity of tablets is what makes them popular, but I can't see traditional desk apps going away either, any more than the prediction that SUVs and truck sales would die after the crash in '08. There is a need for large SUVs and trucks, just like there is a need for the traditional desktop. It's why lots of people own an econo car and a truck. People will (and already are) use both tablets and desktops.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    I work, and in Enterprise environments, most companies have just recently moved from Windows XP to Windows 7 after skipping Vista. Even if they liked Windows 8, they wouldn't upgrade to it for two to three years. Since they won't like it, they will stay with Windows 7 until forced to Upgrade, probably to Windows 9.

    I haven't used PowerShell a lot, because there are other good tools for Systems administration, but I recently downloaded and installed the Windows 2012 Core Server. I tried to use PowerShell to start the Management tools. I couldn't find them. Maybe they are there, if so somebody else will find them, and I'll find out from them.
    Powershell is the bomb. Its VB scripting on steroids. Once you start using it you'll like it. Its not new, but it is getting more heavily used. Many tasks and tools in Exchange 2012 and System Center 2012 are Powershell driven, and as you've already learned with Server 2012. With Server 2012, the little I've learned so far is going to be excellent. The enhancements are another reason I believe the desktop is far from dead. Server 2012 is built to support desktop environments more than any previous NOS from MicroSoft.
    Last edited by Doc Brown; 2012-07-13 at 09:45.
    Chuck

  3. #3
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Chuck. Even a rich MS can't afford to drop the hundreds of millions of conventional (desktops and laptops) devices and users. This would alienate a huge base for MS. They are not dumb. Yes they would like to and will push users toward Metro. They can push all they want. Win XP had a 15 year life span (It's "death date" has recently been announced as April 8th, 2014). This would lead me to believe that Win 8 will be around a long time.

    I use the desktop most of the time, and use conventional apps most of the time. I do not see those users that are similar to me buying lots of apps from the App Store. I guess a lot will depend on if there are apps developed that can be used for work. So far it does not appear that is the case, perhaps this will change. There are still many developers making and updating conventional apps.

    I will also have to see how the apps work in the released version. The apps in the beta version leave a lot to be desired.

    I have no worries that I will not be able to continue using my conventional PCs for the foreseeable future. So far the only tablet variety PC that appeals to me is the Surface Pro, and not enough is known about it yet.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
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    Personally I hope Windows 8 sales flop on desktops and laptops because of the who cares attitude MS has shown us. Their main goal seems to try and catch up to Apple in phones and tablets and sell apps.
    Joe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe S View Post
    Personally I hope Windows 8 sales flop on desktops and laptops because of the who cares attitude MS has shown us. Their main goal seems to try and catch up to Apple in phones and tablets and sell apps.
    Joe
    It's actually much more than that. It's indeed a fight for survival, in the long run, as they are currently irrelevant in two markets where the most growth is predictable. So, IMHO, it's way more complex than you state.

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    EDIT: These aren't the droids you're looking for. Move along...
    Chuck

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
    Can you point to some solid evidence of MS wanting to delete the desktop?
    Microsoft wants a single user interface. They have chosen Metro UI. They have deprecated the desktop UI. Are you trying to argue that they haven't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
    The new Start menu is a paradigm shift. Yes, it is still the Start Menu,
    If you call a dogs tail a leg, then how many legs does a dog have? It has four legs. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Calling the Metro UI a "Start" page or menu or anything else doesn't make it a start menu. The Metro UI is not a Start Menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
    The desktop is one simple click away.
    I think of it as being a pain-in-the-ass click away. And it is to a crippled desktop UI that does not have a start menu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
    And all of your desktop apps can be launched from it the same as the traditional Start Menu. So far all of my personal desktop apps run just fine in Win 8.
    The Windows 7 Start Menu is better, the Metro UI Start page is brain dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
    The desktop model is alive and well.
    The desktop UI is not alive and well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Brown View Post
    Server 2012.
    You keep saying Server 2012. That is not the same as Windows Server 2012 Core. Both the GUI version and the Core version can be installed from the ISO, or you can install the GUI version and then convert it to Core.

  8. #8
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Classic Shell gives you all the functions of the Win 7 Start Orb. Plus there is a setting in the latest edition that allows a boot through the Metro to the Desktop without any user actions.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
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  9. #9
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    I have the Classic Shell and I like it's start menu, but I don't like it as well as I like the Windows 7 start menu. I definitely do not like the Classic Shell Search as well as I like the Windows 7 Search programs and files.

  10. #10
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    I just installed the Classic Shell a couple of days ago, & after login, Metro flashes for a second or two, then the Desktop is there. Not complicated at all.

    Plus, Classic Shell is configurable. One can configure it for the XP look & feel if desired, or the Win 7 Aero one also. Speaking of which, I for one am glad that MS is dropping Aero, it's just a waste of resources.

    MS isn't going to the Metro interface for the heck of it, as Windows 7 is still selling at decent rates. They are doing it to keep up with the competition, in order to compete, as well as keeping in tune with the times. This isn't the 70's, where one platform could run for years, these days, hardware & software (including the OS) is behind the times as soon as the next is released. Especially hardware.

    MS as a corporation has to balance between keeping both it's shareholders & customers happy. It's not an easy task. Every OS is scheduled to be released 3 years from the last. That's a lot of work to be completed within that time frame, it's incredible that MS could pull off this major of a task in 3 years. And the thing about that is, the next version of Windows (after 8) is already in discussion. So these folks never gets a break.

    MS's goals for Windows 8, as with all new releases, is to propel us into the future of computing. One Windows 8 Workstation with Hyper-V enabled can do the work of up to 4 XP through Win 7 computers (& employees), which means huge savings for business/government use. This can apply to home users also, one desktop (that can run Hyper-V) can take the place of two, both of which saves a lot of money on hardware costs. For the home user with dual monitors, this means being able to run Windows 8 & Ubuntu 12.04 (or other OS) at the same time, running multiple programs at once on 2 platforms.

    There's a lot more under the hood of Windows 8 compared to previous editions, just that the user's hardware must support some specialized functions (like Hyper-V) to work.

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    The next question is will MS kill off the third party work arounds like Classic Shell in the RTM or in periodic security updates? Will the Enterprise edition be changed to bypass Metro but not the consumer versions? The present appearance is going to be a tough sell to business. Take a hospital for example hundreds or thousands of units and users. There will need to be a lot of retraining or customizing for the unenlightened users.
    Joe

  12. #12
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I really have to believe the developers of these Alternatives will develop work-arounds for those things MS might do. They always have, and on very short order.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
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    Star Lounger catilley1092's Avatar
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    I'm with Ted on this one, developers are now paying extra money ($500?) for whatever software it is that they use to develop apps (Visual Studio?). I recall reading this a couple or so months ago, but forgot the exact details.

    As long as there's demand, these developers will come up with what we want or need. I'm not saying that all choices will continue to remain free of charge, some probably won't. After all, they deserve a slice of the pie too, hence the toolbars they bundle in.

    If there was something that I really liked or needed, I would pay a few bucks for it, but I hope that things stay as they are for long as possible. But as far as choices goes, there probably will remain them, free or paid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescott View Post
    Microsoft wants a single user interface. They have chosen Metro UI. They have deprecated the desktop UI. Are you trying to argue that they haven't?

    If you call a dogs tail a leg, then how many legs does a dog have? It has four legs. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it a leg. Calling the Metro UI a "Start" page or menu or anything else doesn't make it a start menu. The Metro UI is not a Start Menu.

    I think of it as being a pain-in-the-ass click away. And it is to a crippled desktop UI that does not have a start menu.



    The Windows 7 Start Menu is better, the Metro UI Start page is brain dead.



    The desktop UI is not alive and well.



    You keep saying Server 2012. That is not the same as Windows Server 2012 Core. Both the GUI version and the Core version can be installed from the ISO, or you can install the GUI version and then convert it to Core.
    You said a lot, but aside from personal opinion, you really haven't shown me anything else. If you don't like change, just say so. You won't, and can't convince me that its crippled or unusable. Even if there is something missing, its so customizable as to make any argument against the "stock" interface moot.

    BTW, I refer to "Server 2012" because they (the GUI and Core installations), well, they ARE the same, which is why they are on the same ISO. The main difference is that a core install can't run some non-essential things like Internet Explorer. Good reading here.. Better reading here...
    Chuck

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I have to agree Chuck. I think everyone knows my opinion on Win 8, and the lack of a Start Orb. With alternatives we can boot directly into the Desktop UI and bypass the Metro UI. Speaking of the Metro UI, you can have as few tiles on this UI as you like. Elsewhere I have shown that my Metro UI includes a Desktop tile, and Shutdown/Restart tiles. That's it. If a person allows tiles to remain on the Metro UI, they can be arranged how ever a user wants it arranged.

    But as I've often said, I spend my time on the Desktop UI. My desktop is heavily customized to meet my needs, but then again so is my Win 7 OS. The nice thing about Windows, unlike iOS, is it is SO CUSTOMIZABLE! Windows allows a user to change things almost at will and almost unlimited! Why would anyone accept the default, boring desktop the way it arrives.

    For those that argue this should not be necessary let me ask, are there icons pinned to the Taskbar on your Win 7 desktop? Do you have a different theme (have you personalized) on your desktop? Have you installed a different browser than IE (In the US, I realize European users do not get IE by default) on your OS. Have you pinned folders or apps to your desktop? Well then you have customized your desktop in Win 7 (or Win XP) to a great extent. Why then should you not wish to customize your Win 8 RP or Win 8 Pro desktop?
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
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