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  1. #31
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    You can think of the Metro or Modern UI start screen on the desktop as an extended logon screen complete with it's own separate API.
    I do, but not in the way Microsoft envisions, that's for sure. Key word is separate. My desktop activities have not blended one darn bit with the modern, except so far as certain otherwise browser-bound apps can enhance, like Maps and G-Maps; full screen on a large screen is awesome for that; but they are oh so few, and the serious research into topographical change over time has to go back to the desktop.
    For those with simpler needs, more linear needs, more device integration and unification, and lack of large G.I.s, ok. Even for those of us who are 90% desktop-oriented, if we want one or more systems dedicated to unification, hey, more power to us right?

    All that to point out why I think choice and clear separation would have been a better way to go. Everyone would still get what they wanted if they wanted it and enterprise concerns would be largely nullified. Be smart in an osmotic way and don't foist such a radical change so suddenly by undermining the traditional interface that was and is serving so well for so long.

    The whole thing smells like an economic campaign rather than an evolution of an OS because of it. The smart way would be to make it seem like an evolution of an OS that was in actuality, a sound economic campaign. It's just coming out the wrong way I think because Microsoft is trying to speed up time, to jump start the process, and I say all this without respect to Win 7 standing in the on-deck circle, but new consumer PCs are on the truck with Win8 right? What's the percentage of touch at? The forcing of the interface just doesn't seem right for the times....yet (at least not where Microsoft is positioned in the market at the moment). Until that time (again, imagining the absence of Win7) there's probably going to be a fair bit more pain than there needed to be between here and there.

  2. #32
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    It seems that forcing metro is a means toward forcing the Microsoft app store. The only apps that work on metro (so far) are those that come through the app store. MS is looking for an enhanced revenue stream via the app store, so that the OS is no longer a one-time-per-user revenue source, but a conduit for continuing revenue over the life of the OS.

    I don't spend any appreciable time in metro, however. I don't shut down my laptop, I just close the lid. On AC power, it goes to sleep; on battery power it hibernates. Either way, when I open the lid and logon, I'm right back at the desktop. I'm slowly building an inventory of shortcut icons on the desktop or pinned to the taskbar.

    But in the long run, I'll be reverting to Windows 7. Windows 8 is not an OS that I want to use. Sunday a friend wanted me to help her pick out a new laptop amongst all the sales coming up for Black Friday. She decided on a refurbished Dell, because it has Windows 7. She's quite familiar with Windows 7, and doesn't want to have to learn something new. I didn't dissuade her from a Windows 8 machine; I only said that Windows 8 is a little different, and will take a little getting used to. She uses her laptop for school, and doesn't want an OS to get in the way of everything else she's trying to learn.
    Create a new drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "Let them that don't want it have memories of not gettin' any." "Gratitude is riches and complaint is poverty and the worst I ever had was wonderful." Brother Dave Gardner "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else." Sir Thomas Robert Deware. "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?" Captain Jack Sparrow.
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  3. #33
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    The only apps I have installed from the App Store have been free. I did not install the Stardock replacement Start8 because it costs money. There is a super alternative, which I consider better than the Stardock offering (I did try the free trial version) called Classic Shell.

    At this point it appears the majority of apps from the App Store are geared toward play or information. Mind you I do not even look there very often so I could be behind the times. I have not heard of any real productivity apps coming out yet. Perhaps this is partly due to no high powered tablets being ready yet. My belief is that a tablet would have to be able to run Win 8 Pro to really be considered a workhorse. Again I suppose this is a mistaken impression, but that is my belief for now.

    I also do have some paid for apps on my desktop UI, but these are apps I had on Win 7 as well, MalwareBytes Pro, Revo Pro, PdaNet 3.5, etc.
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  4. #34
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    As well as the income from app sales, there's also income from selling the advertising space in apps. It would be interesting to know how the two figures compare.

  5. #35
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    MS is using the app store to enforce a stricter coding guideline thereby providing a degree of stability and security that
    has not traditionally been there with "everyone and their dog" writing crapware, like the desktop environment.
    Metro is a separate API and MS should be far more stringent on who/what is installed there. Programmers will adjust.

    I'm sure MS will do quite well from the revenue they generate from program writers, as they should, but so does Apple.
    As long as they don't restrict what's installed on the desktop I'm fine with it.
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  6. #36
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    Something else may be impacting sales. Stereos began to plateau about the time the CD came out and prices dropped. Eventually there wasn't much interest in upgrading for little noticed change. Windows 7 may be that plateau for a lot of nongeek users. There is nothing exciting enough to really attract them if they already have a good running high end computer.
    Joe

  7. #37
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    This is a fascinating time for being on the sidelines. I get to see a lot of random consumer machines, and a couple patterns are apparent. One, the Win XP systems in service are hardy machines, they're working fine but failing on schedule. I see a LOT of old Dell plastic clamshell cases. A lot of Vista machines are failing recently, mostly due to bad motherboard capacitors. We don't repair those, but I'm curious if any of you do and how well that works. (I used to work for Heathkit and soldering is as easy to me as flossing my teeth...but replacing caps on old machines seems like a waste of money...right?)

    Anyway, these people are buying new machines as their old ones fail. Many of them barely know how to use Windows to get to their browser or Office, or some games. Their HDD has maybe 40GB used total, unless they have a lot of music, photos, or movies. These people are going to hate computers even more than they do already.

    We know that most (all?) businesses will reject Win 8 on first glance due to the retraining and lack of any obvious productivity or reliability advantages. Certainly MS knows this too. Win 7 is gone from stores, so the beta tester for this POS UI is the home user who won't buy online where she can choose a more suitable desktop OS.

    MS has hindered OS downgrades because regular Win 8, which is what's on all the machines at retailers, is downgradeable. We will likely be installing ClassicShell a lot when new Win 8 users get shat on by that hot mess of a UI.

    Microsoft is making bold moves but I don't think they're doing it right.

  8. #38
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
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    We know that most (all?) businesses will reject Win 8 on first glance due to the retraining and lack of any obvious productivity or reliability advantages. Certainly MS knows this too. Win 7 is gone from stores, so the beta tester for this POS UI is the home user who won't buy online where she can choose a more suitable desktop OS.
    Not true, Windows 8 would make an excellent OS for business.
    It's far more secure than any of it's predecessors with far less third party add on security and internal blocking features needed.
    Windows 8 is less resource hungry than any of it's predecessors and far more IT friendly.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by John-O View Post
    These people are going to hate computers even more than they do already.
    Do you see any evidence of people buying tablets in the hope that they are easier to understand than traditional computers? If so, would they avoid Windows RT tablets due to a perception of it being more complicated than iOS or Android? And if they do buy a tablet of any kind do they actually find it any simpler to operate?

  10. #40
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    And other articles that state just the opposite:

    How Win 8 can help your business

    Win 8 features that will benefit business

    10 essential ingredients of a killer Win 8 business PC

    Windows 8 and Windows adoption

    You can find articles for each side of this debate. I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Note: Sorry this post should have been after the next post, but the altered time problem struck again
    Last edited by Medico; 2012-11-24 at 14:34.
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    Not true, Windows 8 would make an excellent OS for business.
    That's not what business thinks:
    http://www.businessinsider.com/enter...dows-8-2012-10
    http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/win...windows-8/6828

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by CLiNT View Post
    It's far more secure than any of it's predecessors with far less third party add on security and internal blocking features needed.
    Windows 8 is less resource hungry than any of it's predecessors and far more IT friendly.
    I think it's a real stretch to say that Windows 8 is FAR more secure and FAR more IT friendly than Windows 7. What are the huge business improvements?


    That one's requirements FOR, rather than advantages OF.


    Quote Originally Posted by Medico View Post
    Note: Sorry this post should have been after the next post, but the altered time problem struck again
    It's getting very confusing. I've seen quite a few posts getting retimed out of sequence and ahead of actual time. Do you know where the problem lies?


    Bruce
    Last edited by BruceR; 2012-11-24 at 16:19.

  13. #43
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    I am not sure at all. It has struck me 2 or 3 times today. Hopefully the network people have seen our posts here and in our officers forum and are looking into it. I have never seen this before. It almost looks as though at times the Lounge reverts to daylight savings time, then reverts back, very intermittently. It has been reported.
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  14. #44
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    Clint, using recent history as a guide (Vista) the technical benefits are mostly irrelevant. 7 to 8 is a major UI overhaul in a market where training is a dirty word. If the transition requires end-user training the bean counters want to know how much it will cost and where/when they're going to gain efficiencies (ROI) as a result. Does Win 8 offer any end-user efficiencies on the desktop PC? Not IMHO. And if not, they won't be interested with Win 7 just hitting its stride in the enterprise.

    John529...yes, and I see these people buy iPads mainly because they're cool, not easier. iPads have cool apps, so users get some cool stuff done but all they're doing is browsing the store and tapping icons. I don't think many tablet users find them necessarily easier, just more convenient and more portable. The appstore is a great way to get stuff. That approach is a lot easier than loading up a PC and so far a lot safer from a malware perspective. Frankly, I see tablets as a consumer fad. Maybe they're a trend, but I don't see how they fit in business roles that have desks.

    So here goes: I think the metro interface is more reminiscent of DOSSHELL than anything I'd call modern. Didn't we just spend 20 years making the icons and folders look realistic on desktops? And now we get 2D primary-colored rectangles and full-screen only apps lacking intuitive controls? Call me unimpressed so far. Oh look, a TV ad for a picture password. I'm sold! LOL

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  15. #45
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    With some minor customizations that will take an hour for some IT person in a business to add to their Win 8 Image, many of the end users will not be able to tell the differences between Win 8 and their former OS. Once the customizations are added to the initial Image, that Image, along with their volume licenses, can be placed on all their PCs. The learning curve in this case will be minimal IMO. This is what my desktop looks like. Can you differentiate between Win 7 and Win 8? Which is which? It's easy to tell if you know what to look for however the average business user would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

    Win7Desktop.jpg


    Win8desktop.jpg

    The technical benefits will then become apparent. The systems will boot faster each day, the memory use of the systems will lead to lower costs associated with daily use because things will be completed sooner. All the benefits of better resource usage will become apparent.

    In addition, Win 8 is the most secure OS natively that MS has released. This will lead to less down time due to malware, etc. I do not believe it will take long to start realizing the benefits of a faster OS consuming fewer resources.
    Last edited by Medico; 2012-11-24 at 19:44.
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