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  1. #46
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    MS knows the enterprise better than anyone, and the forced metro interface clearly tells me they're not going after that market with Win 8 right now.

  2. #47
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    My OS boots automatically to the Desktop within 1 second. I only use the Win 8 Style UI when I wish to start a couple of game apps I play.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


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  3. #48
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    It's not too much of a stretch to say that IT personnel are going to have to bear the lion's share of the brunt in getting the OS setup
    and ready for their respective businesses. It would also stand to reason that much of the complaints would be coming from those having to do
    the extra work.

    There are many businesses that use specialized programs that their employees not need even enter any part of the OS except that which is needed to logon.
    Much of it also goes back to those media tech pundits that are blatantly biased right from the start. They would ensure nothing ever changed, and they might actually find themselves in a position to have to do a little work. [sad]
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Windows 8.1, 64 bit
    Motherboard: DX58SO2*Chipset: X58 Express/Intel ICH10*BIOS: SOX5820J.86A.0888.2012.0129.2203*Processor: Intel Core i7 CPU X 990
    GPU: Nvidia GTX 580*Memory: Corsair 12 GB, 4x3@1600*PSU: Corsair HX1000*Hard drives: REVO X2 160GB*OCZ VERT X3 120GB*5 mechanical storage drives (12 TB) total.

  4. #49
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    What an entertaining thread! While several of the usual suspects in the Win8 booster crew are valiantly persisting in its defense, could it possibly be that those so often characterized as 'naysayers' may have been right after all?

    Conspicuous by his complete absence, though, is Drew. One might suspect that he turned tail and fled after the Thurrott article appeared, but his last posting activity was 6 days before that date - so I hope (really) that he's OK and just on vacation (as I have been for a similar amount of time, between trying to complete a hardwood kitchen floor and replacement island and running a propane line from our furnace to said island to supply a new gas cooktop, and then getting caught up in the Black Friday mardi gras).

    All that said, though, and in the interest of balance (something I tend to seek even when the preponderance of opinion seems to have swung toward my own inclinations), Microsoft's loss may be our gain. For example, it's now possible to purchase either the Win8 Pro Upgrade (from 7, Vista, or XP) or the Win8 Pro Pack (to upgrade from Win8 non-Pro) for $54.99 from Amazon (see http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...tag=slicinc-20 and http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...tag=slicinc-20 ) - which includes a $25 Amazon credit 10 days after you order (tends to be useful even for non-Amazon aficionados at this time of year), bringing the net price down to $29.99 including (in the case of the Upgrade, anyway) media (something which one might suspect would not have occurred had Win8 sales been what Microsoft hoped they would be).

    In a similar spirit of balance, as far as SSD size limitations go for many people they should not be that much of an issue as long as they don't store copious numbers of large data files on the SSD (that's what external USB drives are for, right? and surely the Surfaces have USB 3.0 ports). My own fairly mature 'boot' partition weighs in at only a bit over 4 GB (including a 0.5 GB paging file and far more applications than I use - I tend to install many of them just to try out and seldom get around to removing them). Oh, wait: that's on Win2K - XP would require a bit more, and Vista a LOT more, but Win7 probably no more than Vista and isn't Win8 said to require LESS than Win7? In any event, anyone who segregates most of their bulky data (without even having to explicitly change their MyDocuments location) really should be able to fit their system into 128 GB with plenty of room to spare.

    As far as all the "It's easy" vs. "It's different and/or ugly" observations go, are they perhaps just shooting by each other rather than meeting head-on on a common point? I certainly never claimed that the Win8 interface was TOO DIFFICULT for anyone (even a non-techie) to master, just that it was sufficiently different to scare a lot of people away who wouldn't even TRY to master it, and I suspect many others here felt the same way. I consider it only a minor irritant (and that mostly because it didn't NEED to be any irritant at all), but I think it's proving to be considerably more of a sales impediment than many here expected it to be (and that was always my point).

    At any rate, it's nice to be back and getting caught up on what's transpired over the past couple of weeks.
    Last edited by - bill; 2012-11-25 at 00:37. Reason: changed Win8 Upgrade to Win8 Pro Upgrade

  5. #50
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    Thanks for sharing this news with us. I believe Windows 8 will be the next Vista .

  6. #51
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    I think a bit of rigor is always good, so I will let Paul Thurrott speak for himself:

    Capture.JPG

    All this speculation about Windows 8 sales is being done exclusively on a single Thurrott statement. I find it very curious that he ended up commenting about the way his comment was virally propagated.

    Welcome to the Internet indeed.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    I think a bit of rigor is always good, so I will let Paul Thurrott speak for himself:

    Capture.JPG

    All this speculation about Windows 8 sales is being done exclusively on a single Thurrott statement. I find it very curious that he ended up commenting about the way his comment was virally propagated.

    Welcome to the Internet indeed.
    Paul's article speaks quite well for itself:

    "Sales of Windows 8 PCs are well below Microsoft’s internal projections and have been described inside the company as disappointing."

    "One of my most trusted sources at Microsoft confirmed Windows 8’s weak start this week."

    He then goes on to list a raft of reasons why this slow start may have occurred and eventually concludes

    "In this way, the Windows 8 launch is much like that of Vista, where a nagging (and in that case, tech blogger-led) cabal of disappointed voices dominated the discussion at launch and torpedoed the product before it had a chance. Windows 8 is no Vista, in many ways. Until it is.

    All of this was avoidable."


    So he states very clearly that Win 8 is indeed not selling well compared with Microsoft's expectations (which, incidentally, is exactly what the CNet article reported that he said - so no cause for complaint there). Whether that constitutes 'not selling well' without such qualification is of course debatable and Paul is correct in observing (by implication) that the former, not the latter, is what he said - but note that he ventured no opinion on whether he also thinks that the latter may be the case. My guess is that he already got into hot enough water by simply stating the former and would just as soon move on to other topics, and it's also possible that he didn't expect his observations to get as widely reported (and perhaps mis-reported) as they in fact did.

    In the interests of rigor, 'all this speculation' is based upon more than just Paul's article. Sinofsky's abrupt departure certainly added fuel to the discussion, and the CNet article links to a poll of 1.6 million PC users conducted just prior to the launch that demonstrates considerable user hesitation to embrace the product. I haven't bothered to search beyond the links originally provided in this thread, but it would not exactly surprise me if there were quite a few more bases for 'this speculation' out there.

  8. #53
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    So far I haven't read any logs that are from people who work for a large company.

    I work for a company with something like 50,000 PCs with XP SP3.

    Next year we are going to Windows 7. There is already training available.

    Why is it taking so long to go to a new Windows OS? Because the company has 3400+ Windows applications!

    None of these use touch and they are normally accessed via the start menu. Users can put link/shortcuts anywhere but when you go to the help desk they go to the start menu to make sure you are using the company installed software.

    You have never worked with normal business users. Even a small difference can cause big trouble. I work in mainframe technical support. I wrote a new sign-on program to support the move from ACF2 to RACF security. Got a call from the help desk this critical user can not log on! I'm monitoring the system. I know that we have over 5000 users logged on. So for probably the third time ever I talked to a real user. Took him through the sign-on, the system showed him signed on. He said he can't do anything the terminal is locked. I said hit clear and try again. He said what is clear (he had been using a terminal or terminal-emulator for 15 years and never had to hit clear). As it turns out the new screen was exactly the old screen except for the upper left corner which was protected on the new screen and unprotected and the user was able to enter the application menu transaction and hit enter. I changed the screen.

    MS is nuts if they think big business is going use Windows 8 the way it is now.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by - bill View Post
    Paul's article speaks quite well for itself:

    "Sales of Windows 8 PCs are well below Microsoft’s internal projections and have been described inside the company as disappointing."

    "One of my most trusted sources at Microsoft confirmed Windows 8’s weak start this week."

    He then goes on to list a raft of reasons why this slow start may have occurred and eventually concludes

    "In this way, the Windows 8 launch is much like that of Vista, where a nagging (and in that case, tech blogger-led) cabal of disappointed voices dominated the discussion at launch and torpedoed the product before it had a chance. Windows 8 is no Vista, in many ways. Until it is.

    All of this was avoidable."


    So he states very clearly that Win 8 is indeed not selling well compared with Microsoft's expectations (which, incidentally, is exactly what the CNet article reported that he said - so no cause for complaint there). Whether that constitutes 'not selling well' without such qualification is of course debatable and Paul is correct in observing (by implication) that the former, not the latter, is what he said - but note that he ventured no opinion on whether he also thinks that the latter may be the case. My guess is that he already got into hot enough water by simply stating the former and would just as soon move on to other topics, and it's also possible that he didn't expect his observations to get as widely reported (and perhaps mis-reported) as they in fact did.

    In the interests of rigor, 'all this speculation' is based upon more than just Paul's article. Sinofsky's abrupt departure certainly added fuel to the discussion, and the CNet article links to a poll of 1.6 million PC users conducted just prior to the launch that demonstrates considerable user hesitation to embrace the product. I haven't bothered to search beyond the links originally provided in this thread, but it would not exactly surprise me if there were quite a few more bases for 'this speculation' out there.
    Bill,

    I have no way to state one or the other. I just find it curious that he would make the tweet I quoted in an exchange with other bloggers, that included Ed Bott.

  10. #55
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    I wish people would quit trying to tie Sinofsky's leaving to whether or not Windows 8 is selling well. Any organization that would make that big of a change so shortly after a product release based on less than 30 days of sales would be completely irresponsible and unstable. Microsoft has a long history of making substantial changes in the Windows organization shortly after a major release. The public will probably never know the compete story of why Sinofsky left. There is much in the press about various insider opinions.

    Joe

  11. #56
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    Besides just the desktops in business there are a lot of old CNC machines with propieratry controllers that need to connect to a work station to connect to the mainframe to download their programs. If they want to be able to transfer from the old CNC back to the work station it can be quite interesting to figure out. We went through that when they got rid of Windows 95 PC and replaced it with XP. There was one backup file we needed saved that wouldn't transfer. The IT people couldn't figure it out for us but my day man and I worked together and got it.
    Joe

  12. #57
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    See this further comment from Paul Thurrott - Dialing back the crazy on Windows 8.

    In summary, there has been and will not be any public statement on Microsoft's internal projections. Even though those projections may have been missed that means nothing about whether or not Windows 8 is a success or even whether or not it is selling at the same rate as Windows 7. It just means an internal projection was missed.

    Joe

  13. #58
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    40 million Windows 8 licenses sold in a month, says Microsoft. Is that the size of a failure?
    http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-weve-...te-7000007990/

  14. #59
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Sorry Rui, I did not see this post before starting a thread with this info.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


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  15. #60
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    No worries, Ted, I thought this was the proper place to post since the issue had been discussed here.

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