Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manning, South Carolina
    Posts
    9,433
    Thanks
    371
    Thanked 1,456 Times in 1,325 Posts

    Stiring the Pot Once Again!

    Hey Y'all,

    This {Anti-Virus Not Worth the Money} should get your juices flowing!
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
    Laptop Specs

  2. #2
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    326
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 142 Times in 91 Posts
    RG's link points to a TechWorld article, which is rather vague. We all know av vendors need time update their signature databases, but how many were eventually picked up and how quickly were the databases updated? TechWorld contains no link to the source for their article, other than a vague, "readers can judge for themselves on Imperva’s website."

    I searched Imperva's website, to no avail. I did both google and bing searches on the title of the alleged study, "Assessing the Effectiveness of Anti-Virus Solutions", but all of the dozen or so links pointed to articles or blogs that used TechWorld as their source, not Imperva! (Is this how rumors are "proven"?)

    Has anyone been able to find the Imperva report so we can "judge for [ourselves]"?

  3. #3
    Administrator
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Portugal
    Posts
    12,519
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 1,397 Times in 1,220 Posts
    The best current products do not base detection on signatures alone. It is also known that signature based detection won't be effective against new threats, since sigs must be produced after the new threats are actually detected! I wonder how reputable and credible reporting can produce articles such as this one. Sig(h).

  4. #4
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    I believe it's irresponsible to try to convince anyone that AV protection is not needed, either in a personal or business environment.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Medico For This Useful Post:

    Dick-Y (2012-11-27),Doc Brown (2012-11-28),mrjimphelps (2012-11-29)

  6. #5
    Super Moderator RetiredGeek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Manning, South Carolina
    Posts
    9,433
    Thanks
    371
    Thanked 1,456 Times in 1,325 Posts
    Hey Y'all,

    Don't get me wrong here! I wasn't advocating going naked on the Internet. I use a multi layered approach like Ted and others including AV {Windows Defender on Win-8 and MSE on Win-7 & XP}. On-Demand scanning with Malwarebytes and Windows Defender Offline. Software Firewall {Windows Firewall} and Hardware Firewall in my Cisco router. This is not to mention frequent images using Macrium Reflect. As the title stated "Stiring the Pot", I guess I did!
    May the Forces of good computing be with you!

    RG

    PowerShell & VBA Rule!

    My Systems: Desktop Specs
    Laptop Specs

  7. #6
    3 Star Lounger
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    326
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 142 Times in 91 Posts
    None of that answers the question: where is TechWorld's evidence? Without that, it's nothing more than one author's personal opinion.

  8. #7
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    I couldn't find any link back to the study "Assessing the Effectiveness of Anti-Virus Solutions" by the "University of Tel Aviv", on behalf of the
    company Imperva. Unless it's a security insider thing here, we're not likely to have access to the study without some form of credential.

    The article imo isn't entirely outrageous, although it is obviously incomplete without the actual study data.


    Antivirus applications deployed in large scale computer environments need just as much fine tuning and maintenance as any other application.
    Not only does any typical AV application have to be installed and tuned properly, it also must be maintained and updated.
    You just can't have a "set and forget" mentality which many believe they are entitled to by default.

    It is entirely believable that there are many companies out there that are stuck in a mid 2000 era mode of security.
    After all, many of these businesses are still running outdated programs and operating system's like Windows XP.
    That alone makes one wonder about what exactly is going on in the area of security with regard to businesses.
    Throw an AV on top of some outdated code and hope for the best. I sure hope that they're locking their systems down and taking
    other steps to ensure integrity & viability to their systems.

    Malware will continue to get more and more sophisticated, and it's entirely possible that the current model behind AV solutions are becoming less
    and less relevant, as they are all largely "reactive" as opposed to being proactive.

    We may see a time when AV solutions become less relevant than today, but I don't think we're quite there yet.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

  9. #8
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,335
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 267 Times in 260 Posts
    The only thing I got out of that was paid AV effectiveness does not justify its cost over free AV, and it seems limited to a certain subset of non-heuristic, or more traditional AV. So it all seems right on to me, just that it only paints about 20% of the whole picture...which is a statement about the state of today's reporting, piecemeal regurgitation is the way of the Internet.

  10. #9
    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,396
    Thanks
    445
    Thanked 404 Times in 376 Posts
    Gizmo (used to be a contributor at Windows Secrets) said once that if you were extremely careful in your computing habits, you could be safe without any A/V software.

    Myself, I like to be as careful as possible, which to me includes having decent A/V software.

    As far as free A/V, my thought is that if you're paying someone, they're probably going to do a better job than if you're not.

    The one exception I have to that rule is MSE. Microsoft has so much money that they're going to do the same job whether they're charging you or giving you the product.

  11. #10
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    I suppose an expert in security, who knows exactly what they are doing, and only goes to certain locations, and doesn't ever get any suspicious emails (even from people in their contact list), and so on and so on, might be able to get along without AV. For the other 99.999999999 percent of the human race, doing so is just asking for problems. With all the drive by attacks and phishing attacks, some of which are very convincing, it just does not make sense to take the easy steps of installing and keeping updated an AV app., many of which are free. Most of these apps are very unobtrusive and low resource usage apps which just help. Yes no one app will catch everything, and most of the free apps are getting as good as the paid apps. for discovering viruses even with out signatures.

    For all those people reading this thread, please continue using your AV apps., and malware apps.

    As RG mentions I have multi-layered security as well. I start with AVG AV 2013 free, Malwarebytes Anti-malware Pro, Spybot Search and Destroy V2 all running real time. I also have the Windows Firewall and a hardware firewall. And still I see suspicious things show up periodically. IMO you cannot be too careful today.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  12. #11
    WS Lounge VIP mrjimphelps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    3,396
    Thanks
    445
    Thanked 404 Times in 376 Posts
    Medico, you are using Spybot? In the past, I wasn't very impressed with Spybot. Apparently it has improved?

  13. #12
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    12,631
    Thanks
    161
    Thanked 936 Times in 856 Posts
    Version 1.xx.xx was a manual run version. The new v2 (just released) runs in real time as does MalwareBytes Pro and seems to play well with MalwareBytes and AVG AV 2013 free. The new Spybot is free although they do ask for a donation. I feel it is one more layer of protection.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


    Sony Vaio Laptop, 2.53 GHz Duo Core Intel CPU, 8 GB RAM, 320 GB HD
    Win 8 Pro (64 Bit), IE 10 (64 Bit)


    Complete PC Specs: By Speccy

  14. #13
    Silver Lounger Banyarola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Big Indian, New York
    Posts
    1,900
    Thanks
    19
    Thanked 65 Times in 54 Posts
    I stopped buying anti virus some time ago and now use MSE only.
    I also have Malwarebytes pro and WinPatrol..

    That and a reasonable amount of caution and I'm safe.
    "If You Are Reading This In English, Thank A VET"

  15. #14
    Silver Lounger
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    2,335
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 267 Times in 260 Posts
    Ya I don't advocate what anyone else outside of my very little sphere of influence and cognitive assessment (logarithmically more important than AV) should be doing. Myself, being in control of all the variables and with a predilection for recognizing uncharacteristic behavior in its infancy, has led me to not bother with any AV at all and we're talking the better part of a decade now on some systems, its just not an issue and never has been. I don't think its 99.999 to infinity but its certainly in the 90th percentile, that everyone else should NOT be doing what I'm doing, if for no other reason than say one cannot control wireless access without encryption.
    The benefits I see are no degradation to system functionality over time, or at least very very few instances. The constant hail and cry is to have AV that's light on resources yet effective, etc. etc. Well, its probably a lot better now than it ever has been (maybe?) but the last decade of history with AV on computers is not such a pretty one...they got infected anyway and the AV "bite" from McAfee and Norton and others was just as bad or worse over time.

    I have MSE running by default here and there. Is it working? Heck if I know, never hear from it and that's fine by me, working or not, just keep staying out of the way and not messing anything else up. I have some 8 year old, up to 210 gigabyte installs working like a top, in large part because I never burdened them with AV (second rule is simple too--never mess with a working registry no matter how cluttered it may seem). Those I installed AV on (AVG, Avast) pretty much all went to bit rot within 3 years.

    So my decade of experience says different but I won't call anyone with an opposing view incorrect!

  16. #15
    Super Moderator CLiNT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    California & Arizona
    Posts
    6,121
    Thanks
    160
    Thanked 609 Times in 557 Posts
    Taking measures to incorporate thorough and complete backup regimens into ones system setup can have an effect on the relevance of antivirus software.
    I would consider an effective backup strategy as being one of the greatest failsafe means of ensuring a largely trouble free experience.

    This will be especially true for those that are frequently experimenting with new software and system settings.
    DRIVE IMAGING
    Invest a little time and energy in a well thought out BACKUP regimen and you will have minimal down time, and headache.

    Build your own system; get everything you want and nothing you don't.
    Latest Build:
    ASUS X99 Deluxe, Core i7-5960X, Corsair Hydro H100i, Plextor M6e 256GB M.2 SSD, Corsair DOMINATOR Platinum 32GB DDR4@2666, W8.1 64 bit,
    EVGA GTX980, Seasonic PLATINUM-1000W PSU, MountainMods U2-UFO Case, and 7 other internal drives.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •