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  1. #1
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    We'll see much more of Windows RT

    According to Hal Berenson, a former Microsoft employee: http://hal2020.com/2013/01/02/there-...in-windows-rt/

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    Very interesting, and as Hal states, very exciting.
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    Uff! Versions of RT? Is that going to work? Folks already complain mightily about all the Windows versions. Is there anything that would tie a business to that sort of adoption? I agree, good idea in a vacuum, but if a much less expensive device with appropriate apps from another company can do the same thing, what is the attraction of RT. The brand consistency or loyalty idea went out the window as far as business goes about the time the iPhones became really popular. Company phones were replaced by personal phones used for business. I think that's the trend that might bite Microsoft hard with this strategy.

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    Yes, it will work. Over time, maybe a decade or so, the traditional desktop (i.e. legacy) applications will cease to exist. They will be migrated to RT or will just disappear. Microsoft will continue to evolve RT so it will be available to and useful for a wider audience.

    What is the much less expensive device that gives corporations the same compatibility and manageability? I think you dramatically underestimate how important it is for larger organizations to be able to manage devices. One can easily think of vertical lines of business that require that sort of control because of either liability or regulatory reasons.

    Joe

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    RT will have to change a lot to allow the flexibility we now get with the current GUI, in Windows. It's a 1.0 version, now, probably not even that.

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    Best of breed is what most IT shops do, so there never really was a such thing as brand loyalty. What was the best tool 3 years ago has been superseded by something else today. And MS has always known that which is why they get companies into enterprise licensing agreements. That said, in the corporate world MS is still the only game in town. There is good reason for this. Integration, central management, and control of all devices and data. No one else but MS is doing that to this degree today. Still, as FUN suggests, consumer devices are starting to drive how some people (don't let the press fool you into thinking that this is as wide spread as they make you think) access company resources (READ, this is different than how the data is served up in the data center). The trouble with consumer devices is that they are just that, consumer devices. And despite what consumers might think, they are inherently insecure. With a quick Google search you can learn how to hack someone's supposedly secure iPhone. And that is where IT gets worried. Not that we want to control your device, but that we need control over company data. Ask any vendor if they can prevent an e-mail attachment from being downloaded to a personal device? Nobody can as far as I have been able to determine. And I've pretty asked much every mobile security vendor if they can do this. Add to that the legal issues around remote wiping a consumer owned device. So the notion of a device that can natively integrate with Active Directory is being watched closely by every IT dept. that manages sensitive data. What Hal Berenson writes about is very desireable.
    Last edited by Doc Brown; 2013-01-03 at 14:42.
    Chuck

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    Do we think that the author of that article foresees a Windows future without sizable windows? Or does he foresee a future version of RT having sizeable windows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by John259 View Post
    Do we think that the author of that article foresees a Windows future without sizable windows? Or does he foresee a future version of RT having sizeable windows?
    I don't think he gets to that level of detail. Personally, I think the multitasking model we are used to, will require better UI solutions than in a limited size phone screen, so there will be developments on that area, or so I hope.

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    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeP517 View Post
    Yes, it will work. Over time, maybe a decade or so, the traditional desktop (i.e. legacy) applications will cease to exist. They will be migrated to RT or will just disappear. Microsoft will continue to evolve RT so it will be available to and useful for a wider audience.

    What is the much less expensive device that gives corporations the same compatibility and manageability? I think you dramatically underestimate how important it is for larger organizations to be able to manage devices. One can easily think of vertical lines of business that require that sort of control because of either liability or regulatory reasons.

    Joe
    Let us not forget, however, that there are a number of corporations (many quite large) using proprietary applications that aren't going to disappear or migrate anywhere outside the corporate network. One of the companies for whom I do project work (but not in IT) has tens of thousands of PC's - not workstations, PC's and laptops, hundreds of corporate server farms (there is a small server farm at each location, really big ones at the corporate level). They stayed with XP until last year, finishing the conversion to Windows 7 in August. There's no telling how long they'll stay with Windows 7.

    The push technology they use is not Microsoft. Their device management technology is not Microsoft. Approved Windows Updates are pushed through their back end. They do use Office Enterprise, but the bulk of their requirements are met through their own proprietary applications that don't run on top of Windows; Windows just provides a front end, and that front end could be ported to another OS in very short order. The IT staff are primarily software and hardware engineers, with a couple of techs each serving several locations at the more local level.

    These are corporations that were running on mainframes through dumb terminals with green screens years before the PC. And how many more are there out there in the business community like them?
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  10. #10
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    Good point about proprietary and specialty applications. A GUI front end to a client server application can be written for any platform. I've supported the Windows side of apps where the back end ran on an AS/400 or a flavor of UNIX (Solaris, AIX). So its not so much of an issue for someone to write an RT app for something like this. I believe Epic Systems is now offering tablet apps for its medical records software. But if I have a choice between a secure device fir my users and a non-secure consumer device, which do you think I am going to choose? A big part of what is going to drive what corporate IT chooses for thier users to access the app is cost and compatibility. For most companies that means using Windows and other Microsoft infrastructure. We went from Novell Groupwise to MS Exchange lst summer because the business needed that compatibility with partners. There was nothing wrong with Groupwise, but it was missing features that people have come to rely on and that pushed us to make the change.
    Chuck

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    I don't think RT has a decade to get its act together, maybe, I won't even speculate on that. Also I don't know about the machinations and rigidities of large corporations, though I suspect even there, with the toe in the door effect, corporations will figure out how to both save money and let their employees use a select group of devices, especially when the only real draw to differentiation is desktop applications and that gets removed...RT has to start hitting it out of the park every time up if it wants any traction...its not good enough to just become as good as the rest.

    As far as small to medium business with support tech either hourly or on retainer (especially the latter), an increasing strategic business plan for those who are working in support for many businesses, it has become THE time to get those businesses to upgrade to Windows 7, because number one, they're not going to W8 period, number two XP support is going away completely next year so it has to be done before a subsequent business application upgrade, and number 3, Windows 7 may not be available if the business waits until later this year or next and when that time does roll around, those techs may be swamped with upgrade work already. This is the message going out to those businesses.

    Never, in any of the discussion is there even the slightest hint of touch compatibility or preparing for that, so at the very best, I don't see how RT can fit into the plan as any thing other than a mobile, vertical add on to the business as a whole. In other words even if they decide on the RT, business is not going to buy and outfit the whole workforce with them like they are going to with Windows 7 on a desktop or laptop.

    Non-secure consumer devices don't bother the majority anymore either with two or three factor authentication, including in-hand which is very secure, and it deflects costs from the business (win win for the business). I'm sure some stone-age corporations will stick to their guns, but if Microsoft is depending on that I think they are dead in the water. The only way they could get that to work is make and keep proprietary apps but if they do that I think business will just say, the heck with it and buy everyone a good old fashioned laptop. Again RT dead.

    I was thinking about the decade comment as I wrote as well and I think if it takes a decade, RT dead.

    I think if Microsoft subsidizes the heck out of the hardware and concentrates all their effort into improvement, RT lives.

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    I can't comment regarding business usage but in the consumer world it seems to be generally accepted now that the Surface RT tablet is not selling well, not many other Windows RT tablets are being manufactured, and software developers are largely ignoring the Metro/RT app platform. Apple and Android continue to dominate with fully established hardware, operating systems and app stores - against which MS which has none of these things cannot compete unless perhaps they lower their prices very drastically. In the consumer market, it seems to me that there must a fairly high probability that RT will soon cease to exist.

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    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    The gist of the article was that over time desktop apps will be developed into Win 8 Style apps and will be moved into that UI. Over time there will be less and less need for the desktop UI as these apps are developed.

    Right now this process is just beginning. At this time many of us are spending the majority of our time on the desktop. In my case that is because it is comfortable to me, whereas I am just beginning to get comfortable with the Win 8 Style UI, and the apps I use at present have not, for the most part, been developed for the Win 8 Style UI. As this process continues on, this will most likely reverse.

    Perhaps MS was very smart in doing things in this way. Give a very easy way to continue to use the desktop UI while starting people down the road to comfort with this new look, new UI. By the time the apps are migrated to the Win 8 Style UI we will be far more comfortable with it and will accept these changes easier than at the initial release.
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  14. #14
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    I don't think I'll ever get comfortable with the Win 8 style UI. The big thing that bothers me is that it's Chromeless (no menus or god help us ribbons). I also don't like the idea that you have to check the hidden options bar at the bottom of the screen and Settings on the Charms bar for program options. You never know which one contains the option you are looking for. Still hunting for a Modern UI app that I like. The only ones I use are games and only because they took them away from the desktop. I would much rather have the old Desktop card games and Mine sweeper than the Modern UI versions that are slower to start.

    Jerry

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    To me they're like two different universes colliding. Sure there can be a lot of overlap and many can live exclusively in one universe or another but for me, continuing to combine and eliminate one only gets to a certain point, and that's because of the type of interface each is. I look at all my complicated muti-dozen button and list interface programs and wonder how would this ever work on a touch interface? It would have to be muti-page componentized or muti-monitored or something like that, and that is inherently far less efficient than a desktop interface and we all want to be more productive with any interaction with a computer for the most part, not less. Even the different U.I. considerations using browsers in each environment elucidates the complication difficulties and loss of efficiency when many tabs are open concurrently (say 15 to 20). Even Chrome, which looks very similar in each environment, seems to lack only the minimize, restore and close buttons can't be switch out as quickly for another app as what can be accomplished by several methods on the desktop. I think the alt-tab works on the Start screen right? So that would be a nice quick alternative but it soon would come up a bit short again if a lot of multi-tasking was occurring (say 10-15 tasks).

    So its not so much that the touch interface can't handle it, just that I can't really envision a way it could approach being nearly as efficient as the desktop for more intensive use. Hence the colliding universes for me, not integrating or unifying beyond a certain point.


    Specifically concerning the RT, removing the desktop is probably the right thing to do, but that makes it just like the competition, only not as popular, no traction yet, expensive by comparison, behind on apps...any more?
    Last edited by F.U.N. downtown; 2013-01-04 at 11:29.

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