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  1. #1
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    An open discussion of Windows 8's usability -- Huh?

    I've installed Windows 8 Pro on 5 computers (including my own) so far and must report that the only usability issue anybody has had is the absence of the Start button and menus on the desktop. That complaint -- a very valid one -- is easily overcome with any of the half dozen or so applications available for free or just $4.99 that restore the Start button and menus and enable you to check a box to automatically boot into the desktop rather than the modern UI. I've tested nearly all of these and I concluded that Start8 from StarDock.com is the best of the bunch. It's well worth the $4.99 (after a 30-day free trial). It's the easiest to use and the most stable.

    I readily admit I rarely go to the Modern UI. But I'm enjoying Window 8's faster speed and more foregiving nature without giving up usability. And for $40 until Jan 31, the Windows 8 Pro upgrade is a bargain (caution: if you buy the download online from Microsoft, you get the 32-bit version if you're currently using a 32-bit Windows -- there is no option to get the 64-bit version; similarly you get the 64-bit version if the computer you're on when you order is a 64-bit Windows -- the alternative is to buy the discs which sell for $69.99 or less at retail outlets online and in brick and mortar).
    Last edited by Medico; 2013-01-18 at 14:02.

  2. #2
    Plutonium Lounger Medico's Avatar
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    As the decision was made to try to keep discussion to technical aspects and not personal opinions in the Win 8 Forum, this thread has been moved to the Scuttlebutt Forum. The decision was made to try to stop the in fighting and arguments that tend to get personal with these type discussions.
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  3. #3
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    The only complaint from the analytical and considerate opposition is NOT with Windows 8, it's that Microsoft "hooked" it up wrong; positive clamp to negative post, negative clamp to positive post.
    Time and time again those not using a touch device and who forgive Microsoft for these trespasses also admit they are not using the Start screen as the main interface and that it had to be overcome, easy though it may be with the right knowledge.
    Everything would have gone swimmingly if continuity had been maintained (as most everyone has to implement on their own now anyway) and the Start screen interface only been implemented when appropriate or desired.

    Now if half the users stayed in the Start screen U.I. on non-touch devices and only half switched to desktop and implemented toolbars and third party start menus, then there's be a horse race so to speak. As is there isn't, hence the controversy. Maybe if/when touch starts to infiltrate back up the mobile food chain and becomes ingratiated into non-mobility, but until then, Microsoft's presentation of Windows 8 is an insult to users. Here, let me fix that for you Microsoft, I'm sure you had other things on your mind, like trying to catch up to Apple and Android devices rather than what's best for the user.

  4. #4
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    Not sure what was meant by more forgiving either, my experience is its less forgiving, in other words security is tighter, which is both good and bad. On the bad, I could no longer use programs that set internal flags in their own program folder. I had to go in and set permissions to allow the program so set its own switch flags. There have also be a couple of other incidents, it's not bad by any means but it is a bit less forgiving to me for sure.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for these corrections: the moderator (perhaps not Medico) who moved this post decided to remove my reply to it because he thought it 'chided' the OP. I also mentioned that the objections many had centered not on 'difficulty' per se but on the level of irritation it created, and you've fleshed that out far better than I did.
    Last edited by Medico; 2013-01-17 at 19:03. Reason: This one was me. Unecessary comment

  6. #6
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    Well, I cut them all some slack because, have you ever won an argument with a significant other when it's logic vs. emotion? It just doesn't work, at all, because if ya turn it just bit and jab back with a bit of emotion, OMG that's offensive. So I can be a dinosaur and a Luddite but fan boy is unacceptable; and then some of the responses get truly funny, though I have no idea what spiral branch BruceR was on for a while. The burr of truth remains though and it bugs the you know what out of the Protestants so new interpretations are made and the subject matter, of which the Protestants are the overwhelming majority in bringing up in the first place, and it's shuffled off to a dusty corner of the forum. Well, that lets the truth be even more starkly revealed but its in a dark corner so its also easier to ignore.

    So while the spears of logic can always be blunted and held in suspended animation by emotion, the reverse never works, never even has a chance to work; it pops like so many soap bubbles. Did I say logic ever loses to emotion? No, it just never wins and in real relationships, logic has to find a way to deal with emotion (or one ends up on the Scuttlebutt, er, I mean, couch forever!) and now that this is in Scuttlebutt I can write about such relational concepts now without staying strictly on the topic of W8 correct? Though logically...

  7. #7
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    It was my impression as well that conversations such as this one were moved to Scuttlebutt so that they could continue (if anyone cared to) without blemishing the pristine beauty of the Windows 8 Forum. However, in at least this thread 'moderation' seems to be being applied far more immoderately than I ever saw it applied in Win 8, so perhaps an overall stricter regime is being implemented (though a quick check didn't unearth any reference to one in the Lounge).

    I reacted to the recent objection to 'fanboy' in the same manner you did, and though I took that comment as a private one have noticed other instances in which The Powers That Be here have appeared to act in a less than even-handed manner. I find it sufficiently remarkable that the moderators seem so unanimously supportive of Win 8 despite the generally neutral-to-negative reaction to it that seems to exist in the 'enthusiast' community that it makes me wonder whether they perceive (or perhaps actually receive) pressure from the corporate owners here in that regard (which would make me far more sympathetic to their plight than I occasionally am).
    Last edited by - bill; 2013-01-18 at 16:18.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by F.U.N. downtown View Post
    and then some of the responses get truly funny, though I have no idea what spiral branch BruceR was on for a while.
    I'll try to be funnier .......... and flotsam-worthier.

  9. #9
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    Ok , we'll see if the Protestants can completely resist the urge to bring up supporting articles all the time now that they've been declared non-pertinent to the discussion. I have no such urges being mostly atheistic and only practicing Christianity (Windows) in the widest sense of the religion (principles).

  10. #10
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    All else aside, for me Windows 8 simply doesn't offer enough to make the effort to switch, and it has nothing to do with usability. I don't care at all for the MUI, I dislike the entire Apps concept and implementation. I can make the Desktop work my way easily enough without downloading and installing helper apps or shells, but all of that is really not the point.

    I'm quite comfortable, secure and stable in my Windows 7 setup. All the apps and programs that I use work just fine in Windows 7, but a couple of them won't work at all in Windows 8. To make the complete switch to Windows 8 requires an investment in time and energy to personalize it, and there is simply no return on that investment for me. There is no discernable performance difference between my Windows 7 setup and Windows 8 on my hardware. I'll continue to dual boot Windows 7/8 to be able to help folks with the OS, but I'm not going to install anything more than my very basic program set in Windows 8. My Windows 7 setup is more than sufficient.

    I too am a bit disconcerted that it's OK to promote the many ways of bypassing the Windows 8 annoyances, but not OK to opine that those same annoyances are indicative that Microsoft pooched this one as far as user options are concerned. It's OK to be satisfied with Windows 7, not so OK to enumerate the reasons for that satisfaction, but cheerleading for Windows 8 is not only OK, it's subtly encouraged.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbearren View Post
    It's OK to be satisfied with Windows 7, not so OK to enumerate the reasons for that satisfaction,
    Enumerating is OK, but you have to try to get past 1.

    Bruce

  12. #12
    Super Moderator bbearren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BruceR View Post
    Enumerating is OK, but you have to try to get past 1.

    Bruce

    Aye, there's the rub...
    Last edited by bbearren; 2013-01-20 at 00:16.
    Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

    "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware.
    Unleash Windows

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