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  1. #1
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    Refresh did not correct problem with restore points

    Hello again. I have been having some problems with my Windows 8 installation. I noticed that I had no restore points. I could create a restore point but as soon as I rebooted the restore point would be gone. I searched numerous places on the internet and could find no solution that addressed the problem in such a way that I could repair it. I then considered that I would have to do a refresh or a reset. I did not look forward to reinstalling all of my apps--a daunting task considering the number I have installed. I then found "recimg" on a Microsoft site. Then I found that I could not install "recimg" as it stopped at 22% and would go no further. About a month ago I had a hard drive fail and replaced it with a SSD (drive C) and installed the replaced HD partitioned to drives D and E. (I discussed this at length in an earlier post.) After I installed the new drives I copied the images I had made before changing the drives. Everything seemed to be working. I then made fresh images after the drives were installed.

    To try to fix my problems I copied the image of Drive C that I had made. It did not fix the restore point problem but I was able to install "recimg." At this point, I figured my best bet was to do a "refresh," especially as "recimg" would save my installed programs. It did mostly do that; I had to reinstall a couple of programs. The kicker is that I still have no restore points. I create a restore point and as soon as I reboot it is gone. When I go to system restore I am told that "no restore points have been created." I don't know if this germane to the problem but I cannot find System Volume Information. Since this is where restore points are supposed to be stored it could mean something. (By the way, after I make a restore point I can immediately restore to that point, so it must have been stored somewhere.) It is looking more and more like I am going to have to do, at minimum, a "reset" and reinstall all of my apps. Or, would I be better off doing a clean reinstall? Will I be able to do a reinstall without running into Microsoft problems?

    As usual, I thank all of you who monitor this board and provide assistance. I would sincerely appreciate any help with this (these?) problems. Thank you.

  2. #2
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    "System Volume Information" is a hidden system folder. You must change your view settings to enable "Protected operating system files" in order to see it. Open File Explorer - click on a drive, click the "View" tab. Select Options | Change folder and search options. Click on the "View" tab and then uncheck "Hide protected operating system files".

    Have you checked the settings for System Restore to ensure it is enabled and you have enough drive space available for it?

    Joe

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by elgercee View Post
    Will I be able to do a reinstall without running into Microsoft problems?
    I wish I could help with more than just this, but perhaps someone else can.

    Early-on I reinstalled the Win 8 Pro Upgrade (after first restoring the system from which I had upgraded) without any more difficulty than the first (activated) installation had: it just activated immediately when connected to the Internet, presumably recognizing that it was on the same hardware that the first activation had occurred on. The reason I reinstalled was to change the Win 8 Pro system from 64-bit to 32-bit, and this didn't seem to bother Microsoft either.
    Last edited by - bill; 2013-03-05 at 10:33.

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    That is really no surprise, to be honest. You need to realize that a refresh will get you back to the point you were when you you ran recimg. It does look like you will need a reset.

    Considering the way refresh and reset work, you may want to use an external program to create images of your disk, or use the Windows native imaging (as it used to work in Windows 7), which you can access under Windows 7 File Recovery, in control panel.

  5. #5
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    JoeP517--Thanks. I knew that and thought I had it set properly. As it turns out, I hadn't. I can now see SVI.

    Bill --Thanks. I'm leaning toward a reinstall.

    ruirib -- Thanks. I thought that a refresh brought you back to the original windows 8 installation and that recimg simply added the applications. I guess I was wrong. I use Macrium to make images. As noted in my post I have images of all my drives/partitions. But, if I either reset or fresh install they will be of no use as I will still have to reinstall all of my apps. Is a reset as good as a fresh install? I don't want to do a reset and find I still have the same problem and then have to do a reinstall after all. Is there a consensus as to the best way to go?

    What I would really prefer is a solution to the problem of the disappearing restore points. That would potentially save me from a ton of work and aggravation because, other that the restore point problem, the computer is running quite well. I can't imagine what could have caused the problem, let alone how to fix it. I'm hoping that one of the readers of this post may have some clue.

    (Edit: I should mention that I ran two full virus checks and a full check by Malwarebytes and nothing was found.)

    Thanks to you all.
    Last edited by elgercee; 2013-03-05 at 13:28. Reason: Add information.

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    You can try a refresh without using the files created by recimg. Did you have that option?

    Sorry, haven't done a refresh myself, so not aware of how it proceeds.

  7. #7
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    ruirib: I've learned a couple of things. A reset takes you back to the original windows installation and saves nothing. I was told that the only difference between a reset and a clean installation from disk is that the clean installation will reformat the drive. If you do a refresh without recimg the only things that will be saved are your files and settings; you will have to reinstall all of your applications. A refresh with recimg will save your installed programs (although based on my experience a small few will have to be reinstalled.) I called Microsoft Support to find that my 90-day coverage had expired two days ago (but a tech spoke with me anyway.) Unfortunately he had no solution for the problem.

  8. #8
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    Yes, I am aware of the differences between using recimg and not using it, just not aware how the user interface handles the existence of files created by recimg or not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ruirib View Post
    You can try a refresh without using the files created by recimg. Did you have that option?

    Sorry, haven't done a refresh myself, so not aware of how it proceeds.
    Not unless you use recimg /deregister (see recimg /help). Otherwise it's automatic.


    Quote Originally Posted by elgercee View Post
    What I would really prefer is a solution to the problem of the disappearing restore points.
    Third party defrag programs can sometimes effectively remove restore points (by affecting Volume Shadow Service storage).


    Brucde

  10. #10
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    I suspect the original installation was an Upgrade Installation. Perhaps I'm wrong but this strange problem just looks like the type of problem that we have seen when an Upgrade is used rather than a Custom Install on the original installation. If this is the case, Refresh and / or Reset may continue giving the same failure because you are Refreshing or Resetting from a corrupt original installation.

    Did you burn the ISO file to a DVD or Flash Drive when you originally installed Win 8? If so, I would start over and Custom Install Win 8 from the DVD and format during the installation, then install all apps fresh. I realize this sounds daunting, but my original installations including all customization and app installations and all updates applied took about 5 hours. How many hours have you already spent trying to solve this problem? Often these strange problems have been un-solvable without a Clean Install!

    If you did not burn the ISO file to DVD or Flash, the original receipt you received from MS has a link at the top of the email that should assist in starting the process again. When you get to the point, choose Install by Creating Media.
    BACKUP...BACKUP...BACKUP
    Have a Great Day! Ted


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  11. #11
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    In post #2 Joe asked if you checked your settings for system restore. If you haven't, I would do that first. Some time back, for a still unknown reason, I found that the space set aside for restore points had been changed to zero. I reset it and it has remained.
    I still lose them after I boot to Win 7, but as that is not very often, I have them available for awhile (only not when I need them usually, that's why I image).

    Anyway, go into system restore and see what's set aside for space.

    Rich

  12. #12
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    Thanks to all who have responded. Actually, the original installation started out as an upgrade that did not work. After hours on the phone with Microsoft it was installed as a clean install. I did make a DVD copy. I have checked the restore settings numerous times during this process and ensured that a sufficient amount of space is allocated to restore. As I have Windows 8 and have a SSD as my C Drive I do not defrag. While I used to have a 3rd part defrag app I have not had one since I upgraded to Windows 8. I found a supposed fix on the Kioskea.net help board. It did not work for me but it might work for others. Here it is:
    In the registry, expand the following keys.
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\MountedDevices.
    Right-click on MountedDevices then select New > Key.
    A new key is created. Name it as "Offline".
    Right-click on the Offline key > New Value > Dword 32.
    Name the value as: " \DosDevices\C"
    The C/ refers to the letter of the system partition.
    Select "Hexadecimal" and as value enter "1".
    Close the Registry.
    Then go to Control Panel > Recovery > Configure System Restore.
    Disable the system restore feature and reactivate it.
    Allocate a maximum 7-8% to the system restore feature and create a Restore point.
    Restore points will no longer be cleared, upon restarting your PC.

    Most of the suggested fixes I have found focus on turning off system restore for all drives, rebooting, turning on system restore, rebooting, creating a restore point, and rebooting. This procedure has not worked for me but it may work for others.

    From what I have learned here and other help boards (including Microsoft) the consensus seems to be that the problem rests with system restore and/or volume shadow copy and/or System Volume Information. I have found instructions for renewing system restore in Windows XP but this doesn't help because the file names are different. I would have thought that any or all of these three would be fixable and not require a clean reinstall. But as Medico says, I have probably spent more time trying to fix this than I would have spent doing a clean install.

  13. #13
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    You are not using 3rd party apps that could affect this, are you? Registry cleaners, "so called" performance enhancers, or similar apps?

  14. #14
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    ruirib: No, I am not.

  15. #15
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    Hello, Rui. "Sorry, haven't done a refresh myself, so not aware of how it proceeds. "

    Well, I have tried one, just to see. t looked like a full afternoon endeavour. I killed it after +/- one hour. It sure buggered up my machine but I had a clone and recovered it, in a wink or two, actually a clone here is typically 12 minutes. To me, a refresh is pointless. W-8 profess this procedure for the ones who do not clone and I can see their point. There are better procedures to adopt and I make sure that the persons that I help, all do clones at least once/month. I really abuse my many machines and cloning has saved my neck umpteen times. I have dedicated USB HDs for all machines, the cost of a spare HD is really justifiable now, why be without ?

    Have a great day. Jean.

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