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  1. #1
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    Why does this happen with System Restore?

    Running Win 7 Professional, SP1.

    Restore points are created normally (i.e., sometimes when a new program is installed, from Windows Update installations, manually, etc.). I can view these restore points, although I've never needed to use one, so I can't verify that they work.

    Then I go through my weekly scan and defrag routine:
    I run TDSS rootkit removing tool, Ad-Aware, Malwarebytes, Spybot, Avast anti-virus, Disktrix Ultimate Defrag.

    Just completed this routine, everything came up clean. I ran ERDNT to back up the registry, then created a manual restore point.

    BUT... all my previous restore points are gone! This is not the first time that that has happened when I perform this routine. Seems to me that this is not normal behavior.

    A review of the Reliability Monitor shows no critical events of any kind to explain this.

    Any ideas?

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  3. #2
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Are you sure they are all gone? Did you click the "Show more Restore points" box?

    Jerry

  4. #3
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    Jerry,

    Yep! They're really gone.

    Next time I run through my routine, I'll check for restore points after each program. I might be able to isolate the offending program. I never experienced this with Win XP, running the same programs.

  5. #4
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    You don't have a multiboot system by any chance do you? Booting to a different OS will wipe out Restore Points.
    Check http://support.microsoft.com/kb/301224?wa=wsignin1.0
    for other possibilities.

    Jerry

  6. #5
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    Jerry,
    No multiboot, and none of the causes listed in the link you provided apply in my case, but thank you for the info.

  7. #6
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    Additional troubleshooting has isolated the cause to the defrag program (Disktrix Ultimate Defrag, paid version 3). This is repeatable, and I've sent an email to Disktrix tech support. Hope they have an answer.

  8. #7
    Star Lounger Look's Avatar
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    Hello LesF,

    I & many others don't have much faith in 'System Restore'. I have it disabled on both my computers and I use Acronis to do my backups.
    Their are many others free & paid programs that will do the same job giving you control where its needed.
    Jim.
    May you live as long as you want, and want to as long as you live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesF View Post
    Additional troubleshooting has isolated the cause to the defrag program (Disktrix Ultimate Defrag, paid version 3). This is repeatable, and I've sent an email to Disktrix tech support. Hope they have an answer.
    Surely you don't need to defrag every week...

    On the other hand, I think System Restore can be very helpful avoiding full image restores, if something goes amiss after Windows updates or app installations. I use it is as just another tool I can resort to in case of need.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to ruirib For This Useful Post:

    UncleStu (2013-03-21)

  11. #9
    Super Moderator jwitalka's Avatar
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    Windows 7 does a perfectly serviceable automatic defrag unless your Disktrix install disabled it. I agree with Rui about using System Restore as a backup recovery tool to disk imagaing.

    jerry

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    UncleStu (2013-03-21)

  13. #10
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    Hello, Look. I have found System Restore to be extremely helpful when I need a quick rewind to a previous state (such as recovering from the installation of a misbehaving program). To be clear, I also make periodic disk images with Acronis. Although I've never had to use Acronis to restore an image back to a disk, I know that it will be much slower and less convenient than using System Restore for the minor issues I've encountered. I also tend to doubt those who say that they can restore a disk with Acronis in only 10 minutes. It takes me at least 45 minutes to more than an hour to burn the image (and that's for only a small amount of data).

    ruirib, you are correct, of course, that I don't need to defrag once a week (probably never, given that I have a 2 TB disk and I'm currently using only 66 GB, more than I've EVER used with any operating system to date - I don't use my hard drive for any long term storage). However, Win 7 is a new system for me, and I'm still playing with it and trying to optimize performance, and I like to "clean up" after I make changes.

    Jerry, I haven't tried the Win 7 defrag program yet. I have, of course, used XP's version of it many times, and I've found that Ultimate Defrag allows me more control of where to put programs on the disk and does a more thorough defrag job. But I've also heard that the Win 7 defrag program does a better job than XP's (I'm looking into it), and I may end up using it eventually, if Disktrix says that I have to purchase a new version. In any event, I will never allow the program to perform an automatic defrag - maybe it's just me, but I prefer to control when operations of this sort happen on my computer.

    Thank you all for your comments. Chasing down your suggestions helps me learn a lot about Win 7.

  14. #11
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    I neglected to ask this question in my previous reply:

    Ultimate Defrag allows me to choose it as my default defragger, thereby preventing Win 7 defrag from automatically running. If I eventually dump Ultimate Defrag in favor of the Win 7 defragger, how do I disable automatic defragging?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesF View Post
    Hello, Look. I have found System Restore to be extremely helpful when I need a quick rewind to a previous state (such as recovering from the installation of a misbehaving program). To be clear, I also make periodic disk images with Acronis. Although I've never had to use Acronis to restore an image back to a disk, I know that it will be much slower and less convenient than using System Restore for the minor issues I've encountered. I also tend to doubt those who say that they can restore a disk with Acronis in only 10 minutes. It takes me at least 45 minutes to more than an hour to burn the image (and that's for only a small amount of data).
    Hi LesF, this is how I do:-
    -
    My 2 pc's have rather small hdd's (1 in each), My C: Drive's are 45gb with nothing I can't replace put in it. I have 4 large external hdd's where I store everything. I also have copies on D: Drive for quick access to them.
    I use Acronis 2010 and only do 'One Click' back-ups which is a 'Systembackup'. All done to separate folders, named as the back-up date.
    e.g. if I intend testing a program, I do a back-up first, then if its to be removed, I do a 'Restore'. This is one of two ways to remove a program completely & safely, without damaging my pc's registry. The other way is a clean install.
    Back-ups & Restores are done within Windows as recommended by Acronis, and take about 10 minutes to complete.
    Jim.
    May you live as long as you want, and want to as long as you live.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesF View Post
    I neglected to ask this question in my previous reply:

    Ultimate Defrag allows me to choose it as my default defragger, thereby preventing Win 7 defrag from automatically running. If I eventually dump Ultimate Defrag in favor of the Win 7 defragger, how do I disable automatic defragging?
    Here is a good article on the Windows 7 defragger: http://windows.about.com/od/maintain...agWin7_all.htm
    As you can, just unchecking an option will make the defragger run only when you start it.

    If you have a license to a 3rd party defragging app, there is nothing wrong with using it - as long as they solve the issue of restore points destruction. I also think a once a month defrag op is quite enough.

  17. #14
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    Hi, Look. Thanks for your reply.
    I have a different philosophy regarding backups. I periodically (every couple of months) do a complete disk image using Acronis 2012. I never use Acronis for partial backups; I always do a complete image. I would only consider restoring an HD from an Acronis image as a last resort to save a completely hosed system, or if I replaced the HD. As I said earlier, I've never had to do that, but I'm certain that a full image restore could not be accomplished in 10 minutes.
    For intermediate "backups", I periodically (every few days) move whatever is cluttering my desktop at the time (I never use my computer for any long-term storage) to a re-writeable CD. When that CD gets filled, I burn a permanent CD from it, and then re-use it.
    So, as you can see, System Restore becomes an important tool for me in the event of minor glitches.

    ruirib, thanks for the link.
    I generally agree with you that there's nothing wrong with using a 3rd party defragger, but I'll drop Ultimate Defrag like a hot potato if it messes with my System Restore (still waiting for a response from Distrix tech support on that). I initially chose it because it allowed me more flexibility in placing my files, and seemed to do a pretty good job. What I really would like to know is how the Win 7 defragger compares to other defraggers; I know precious little about it's detailed workings (i.e., when does it consider a file to be fragmented, where does it place the various files, how thorough is it, how fast is it, etc.?). I can't seem to find this info online.
    As far as how often to defrag, I would agree with once a month or (less). However, while I'm familiarizing myself with a new OS, installing/uninstalling programs, comparing performance, etc. I tend to defrag more often. I suspect that'll stop over time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesF View Post
    What I really would like to know is how the Win 7 defragger compares to other defraggers; I know precious little about it's detailed workings (i.e., when does it consider a file to be fragmented, where does it place the various files, how thorough is it, how fast is it, etc.?). I can't seem to find this info online.
    This gives some of that information, and compares Windows 7 Disk Defragmenter to XP and Vista (but not 3rd party defrag programs):

    Disk Defragmentation – Background and Engineering the Windows 7 Improvements (by Steven Sinofsky)


    This general comment at Wikipedia seems worthy of a mention too:

    Windows System Restore points may be deleted during defragmenting/optimizing
    Running most defragmenters and optimizers can cause the Microsoft Shadow Copy service to delete some of the oldest restore points, even if the defragmenters/optimizers are built on Windows API. This is due to Shadow Copy keeping track of some movements of big files performed by the defragmenters/optimizers; when the total disk space used by shadow copies would exceed a specified threshold, older restore points are deleted until the limit is not exceeded

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defrag#...g.2Foptimizing

    (The cited reference is that MyDefrag considers it to be a bug in Windows.)


    Bruce
    Last edited by BruceR; 2013-03-18 at 01:47.

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